 Example Matrix Sites, Here you go... :) |
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 Jul 2 2007, 06:48 PM
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#26
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Shadow Cartographer  Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636  |
Okay. Well if you've finished ranting generally about the Matrix rules in my examples thread, here is how I would handle your scenario:
See, this here is something to look at. Who decided that a blast door suddenly came down? You did as GM. It's denying your own responsibility to then criticise the rules for it taking a whole minute for the hacker to crack and open the lock. If the rules said that it took three seconds, you could equally criticise the rules because it happened too quickly for you to create a tense, drawn out situation whilst the PCs protect the hacker. It depends on what you want, but you work with what the rules give you. And there are plenty of ways to tweak things however you want. Does the door have a wireless connection or not? Does it have a visible maglock, if so is it a biometric lock, a keypad or something you could crack with a maglock passkey? If you want to make it a single roll to get through, like you said, then it requires a passkey and the hacker can simply roll the rating of his passkey vs. the rating of the maglock (which is something else you get to choose as GM). At the opposite end, you could decide that the door has no wireless connection and is controlled centrally with no hackable / accessible lock. The hacker then has to log-in to the facility's network and locate and hack the security node that controls it whilst fending off the IC that guards it. The system is extremely flexible for the degree of difficulty and time that you want.
Well again, you as GM are making it that complicated. If it's a wireless node, then Scan is sufficient to reveal it so you can make a hacking attempt. You don't need to Sniff the traffic. Likewise, you don't need to run Exploit to upgrade to Administrator, you simply add the +6 threshold at the time you make the roll, though I don't see why only administrators could open a door. I doubt the installer of the system wants to be woken up every time a security guard wants to go through it at 1:00am. You wouldn't need a Command program to open the door either, assuming that controlling the door was a basic functionality of the node. So we have two rolls: Electronic Warfare + Scan to find the node Hacking + Exploit to break into it. Alternately, you could use Sniff to intercept traffic to the node and then spoof a command to open. This is more involved, but if the hacker has earlier got hold of a matrix id for a legitimate user of the system, then it's still only a couple of rolls (find the node, then spoof a command to open the door). But I mention this approach only to clarify how you might use Sniff as you have it in your example.
You have that. For version one, the GM decides the door has a basic maglock passkey system as I described, or else an accessible wireless node that controls the opening and closing of the door. One or two rolls respectively. For version two, the node that controls the door has to be located through the site's system, looking for it and then cracking it and defeating the IC. You place the door there. You decide how difficult it is to bypass. The rules will support quite a considerable range, so if the players all die because the blast door drops... it's only one person's fault. |
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Jul 2 2007, 06:51 PM
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#27
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,598 Joined: 24-May 03 Member No.: 4,629 |
Ack. SO sorry, Knasser. I got on a roll and completely forgot the thread's goal as a whole.
Mea culpa, and dinner on me if you're ever in the area. (The examples, BTW, kick hoop.) |
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Jul 2 2007, 07:18 PM
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#28
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Target Group: Members Posts: 48 Joined: 2-June 07 From: Minneapolis, MN Member No.: 11,809 |
Awesome job on this. Printing now.
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Jul 2 2007, 08:23 PM
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#29
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
Likewise - I probably over-reacted. It was useful as we drew out another example of how a GM can set things up, so it's all good. And the offer extends this way too - if you're ever in the Bristol area of the UK, come along for a meal and a game! Can always use a good player or a guest GM! :) I'll have Example 4 up soon, I hope. Example 5 will take a little longer, but will be special. I'm going to take extra care to make sure it could be integrated into a regular, non-hacker focused game without detracting from the other player's fun. -K. |
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Jul 10 2007, 06:30 PM
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#30
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
hey knasser, did you see this thread?:
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=18124 |
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Jul 11 2007, 02:54 AM
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#31
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Great job. These really help me out in the one area I understand the least about in Shadowrun. :)
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Jul 11 2007, 06:13 AM
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#32
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
Thanks. I'm part way through Example 5, but it didn't help when I decided to do an accompanying map of the enclave along with security details. The last one is going to be big. 8) |
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Jul 11 2007, 02:35 PM
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#33
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 226 Joined: 29-July 03 Member No.: 5,137 |
Knasser, I can't thank you enough for this. I haven't really logged on much in a long time, but thought I'd drop by to see what was happening, and lo and behold there was the one thing I thought the SR4 main book was missing: examples for the Matrix. I've pretty much been making it up as I go due to not having time to really figure these things out, and you've just gone a long way towards making it useable.
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Jul 11 2007, 03:16 PM
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#34
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Target Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 26-May 06 Member No.: 8,607 |
Realistically, can a beginning hacker (with rank 6 programs to go with System/Response 6 commlink he got from his boss) get some data from a government node (Something like secrets hold by the defense ministry on an old affair (not the last missiles they developed...))?
It would help me with my aventure if they could^^ |
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Jul 11 2007, 06:22 PM
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#35
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
With a decent hacking skill and those program ranks, it's possible, though for the sake of internal consistency you need to be careful how you arrange things. What you must avoid is setting a precedent where anyone with an average skill and good programs can get government secrets. If that were the case then the UCAS would not be standing. So if I wanted a player to get hold of some government secrets I would add some justifications for why it's not lethally difficult. Suggestions would be: The secrets are old / low-priority and therefore archived somewhere less secure. The hacker gets hold of them through a weak point, such as a government agent accessing his work system from his commlink at home. A contact inside the government sells a temporary user account that will get the hacker past the heavy IC on the outside of the system. The hacker physically infiltrates her way to a more accessible part of the system, bypassing much of the security. Things like this. They all allow you as the GM, to have the players hack what you want and still have a world where government systems are deadly to anyone other than a great hacker. And two and four are likely to depend on the rest of the team also, so that's another plus. Of course if you're talking about an NPC and you just want it to be possible for the sake of the story, then yes - it's still plausible that a hacker could do this. But you should be prepared for a long job as all the stealthing into high rating nodes and sneaking around systems could take days at the least. You can use the same "lucky break" techniques you'd use for players to speed things up if you want. Perhaps a commlink is stolen and the agent doesn't report it because he fears for his job, or is injured and in a coma or somesuch. And in the meantime, the commlink is in the hands of Dave the Hacker. Does this answer your question / any use? It's certainly possible. Just make sure you have the sort of justifications for it that you can take away again if the players start annoying you by getting where they shouldn't. ;) -K. |
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Jul 11 2007, 08:03 PM
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#36
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Target Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 26-May 06 Member No.: 8,607 |
Oh it certainly helped, thanks :) In fact, I wanted to run an old SR3 mission (actually, it's to have my players in Kansas) adapted to SR4 standards : Mission : Mars and it involves getting some informations on a secret NASA mission of 50 years ago. As it's quite old, I think they could have put it in a less secured node. Or I could play the stolen commlink thing, it would be intesting to involve my other players :) Edit : Just adding another question, is it possible to have building isolated from the matrix (no external connection+wireless blocking walls) but with some sort of wired connection to a device connected to a security site (like a satellite connection to a military base or something like that). Would the hacker have to enter the building to hack the node from the inside (that's what I want :P), or could he just stay outside, hack the satellite emitter, and enter the building that way? I want my hacker to enter the building to hack its security, not remain secured outside :S Beginner GM question, I know :grinbig: x |
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Jul 11 2007, 09:44 PM
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#37
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
Perfectly possible and some GMs do it habitually. (Like most things, it should be used for variety, not to prevent a player from ever getting full use out of their abilities). You can have wireless inside and wireless blocking walls and windows or you can even have everything inside the building wired only as well. I mention this only because some players are sneaky enough to get round this by setting up their own relay. I.e. you could have a microdrone on the roof drill through and act as a bridge across the wifi-inhibiting walls. Wireless world -> Drone -> Internal Network. All it needs is one breach like this (people setting up a little transmitter through a whole in the wall, etc, is another one), and there goes the whole basis of your security. ;) There are lots and lots of wired connections to the Matrix. Much of the underlying infrastructure of the Matrix is wired even in 2070. If you want to access your office in Tokyo all the way from Seattle, you aren't using wireless all the way. You're using wireless to the nearest Matrix station, which eventually routes your signal through pacific cables (or satellite) and out of a station at the other end (perhaps back to wireless). So to answer your question about how to force the hacker inside the building, your solution is fine as is, but keep one eye out for player sneakiness as described. They wont (or shouldn't) be able to interfere with either a satellite uplink or a fibre optic cable running underground. It's possible, though not likely, that the building itself is entirely disconnected from the Matrix. If so, then the hacker will not be able to sneak in through the Matrix. More likely, the building will have a Matrix connection ( they make trid-phone calls, don't they? ) but you can keep this secure by either making it hard to find (high thresholds on the browse roll) or, much more likely, just smothering the connecting node with IC and high ratings. If you impose a time-limit on the hacker's success, then it wont be possible for them to take the long time necessary to probe the node and sneak in through VR. If the building is a secure lab or something where there will be less need to connect to the rest of the world, then it's more plausible that the whole thing could be disconnected from the Matrix anyway. Do bear in mind that you don't have to do this to force a hacker inside. It could be that the building has wireless all over the place but the Very Important Computer in the Big Secret Lab remains accessible only through a direct wired connection. |
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Jul 11 2007, 09:51 PM
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#38
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
afaik the NSA setup of today is two computers on a persons desktop. one is for the outside world, one is for the secure systems. said secure system have its own dedicated wired network.
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Jul 12 2007, 03:18 PM
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#39
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Am I misunderstanding the program rating vs. system rules or do some of the IC agents have programs rated higher than they can run? The first example that caught my eye was the IC in the regional office subsystem. The Agent's rating is 4 and the System/Response are both 4, so shouldn't the IC's Stealth be limited to 4?
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Jul 12 2007, 03:36 PM
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#40
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Hmmm, interesting point. I would've thought so. Maybe it can run it at 5 if the node that it's running on is 5 or higher? |
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Jul 12 2007, 06:35 PM
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#41
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Target Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 28-April 07 Member No.: 11,557 |
The programs an agent runs are capped by the agent rating, so those program ratings should be 4. Unless the sysadmin just needed to pad out a budget.
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Oct 10 2007, 08:54 PM
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#42
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 268 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Brisbane, Australia Member No.: 78 |
I was just pointed to this thread, and had a bit of a dig through the pdf file. Very useful from an ideas perspective, so many thanks.
However, from a rules perspective there may be a couple of issues... IC is treated as an agent for all intents and purposes. And that means your IC for node 2 in the first example isn't doing the right thing to the response of the node. The node is System 4, running three programs and the pilot program for the IC. 4 programs equals the system of 4, so the response of the node is dropped by 1 (not two as your example lists) Secondly, RAW states that most standard electronic devices have admin accounts. Your examples may make more sense, but it does mean your examples don't mesh with the way RAW suggests they work. My last is a question, not a fault pick :) Have you come up with a good "in game fluff" reason to stop nodes automatically running IC at a rating equal to the System of the node? Cost can't be it, and rating doesn't affect performance, so I've been at a bit of a loss to find a reason to avoid running them at the highest rating possible |
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Oct 11 2007, 02:38 PM
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#43
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 393 Joined: 2-July 07 Member No.: 12,125 |
Khadim (Knasser) does not post on the boards anymore that I know of... He departed a month or two ago.
In response to your post about how or why a Corp would not run the highest level agent: Simply speaking, you can come up with basically anything at all. As a GM, you can design anything, anyway, for whatever reason... as long as there is continuity. Personally, I would consider the attraction of lower rating IC to be driven by several points: - Contractual obligations with a security / hosting / hardware company. Just as the real world works now, in 2070 networks will be deployed with standard resources that are determined by large scale contracts between manufacturers / developers and the consumer. Consider a Rating 3 IC to be the "standard" "Norton AV" for its time. Most companies do not need more than that as any "casual hackers" will be smashed around by even a rating 3 IC. Never forget the power of incompetence or ignorance. - Cost is a very serious issue. If you are a MegaCorp that is deploying IC across all of your network, it could involve hundreds of thousands of licenses of the IC. Even at ¥3,000 a piece that can get costly. Never forget that big business will cut corners wherever it believes it can get away with doing so. A corp really only needs to use as powerful an IC program is deemed necessary by the value of the information the IC guards. An IC program that sits on a node that contains inventory for office supplies can have all the sophistication of a rent-a-cop with a baseball bat... while IC guarding super-secret black R&D projects is a horse of a different (blacker) color. - Complexity. High rating IC would require a highly skilled and trained network security professional on hand to administer the programs and work load for the IC. A highly advanced program suite requires a trained professional to take advantage of its features. Even the most autonomous systems still require human administration. The more complex the IC, the more technical expertise and labor required to teach the IC its function, check up on its diagnostics and reports, fix any technical issues that crop up etc. - Hardware constraints. Though, by the core rules (god I hate terms like RAW), it takes several high profile programs running on a node to lower its Response, the rules only really address combative Matrix actions. There is no mention made of the system load that general connectivity and productivity places on the system. We are already seeing how programmers and designers are trying to take advantage of every unused CPU cycle with Operating Systems like Windows Vista, why would the future be any different? It would not be difficult to extrapolate or presume that any given node is running several programs in the background that count towards its limits before lowering Response. Once the load starts to get excessive, any IC past rating 3 or 4 will be wasted money since they can only function at a max rating of ~3 due to hardware bottlenecking. Just some thoughts. I think I will double post this information onto FAQ thread that I maintain, perhaps with some elaborations about the methods and decision-making of Corporate Security. - der menkey "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." ~ Ernest Hemingway |
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Oct 11 2007, 04:59 PM
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#44
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Target Group: Members Posts: 56 Joined: 26-September 07 From: The Glitterman Member No.: 13,422 |
This article and all the examples given have really helped. This was the pot of gold I've been looking for to help me better understand how to setup a system to make it fun and challenging for the Technomancer in my group while not absolutely boring the other players to death. Give that GURU a Gold Star! *BOWBOWBOW*
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