 Types of music in Shadowrun |
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 Jun 25 2007, 06:33 PM
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#26
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Old Man of the North  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 10,045 Joined: 14-August 03 From: Just north of the Centre of the Universe Member No.: 5,463  |
What about music composed by artificial intelligences? You could argue that their creations would be the first new form of music since Hip Hop.
What form such music would take is something we humans may not actually be able to predict. |
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Jun 25 2007, 06:49 PM
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#27
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Target Group: Members Posts: 95 Joined: 23-June 07 Member No.: 11,998 |
What purpose would a machine have in crafting music? Why would an AI wish to create music at all?
And we can guess what form it would take - mathematically precise, deep in theory, dead in soul. |
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Jun 25 2007, 07:59 PM
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#28
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
:rotfl:
~J |
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Jun 25 2007, 08:43 PM
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#29
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...nah, it will all be turned into MUZAK that you will hear while waiting for your suborbital flight at SeaTac. |
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Jun 25 2007, 09:02 PM
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#30
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Old Man of the North Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 10,045 Joined: 14-August 03 From: Just north of the Centre of the Universe Member No.: 5,463 |
That's the way computers are now. But what will happen when that "tipping point" is reached, and the intelligence in the machine changes and becomes self-aware? How do you know it won't develop something we would call a soul? Isn't that what happened to our distant, animal ancestors? They hungered... then one day they yearned. |
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Jun 25 2007, 09:48 PM
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#31
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
While Concrete Dreams may have lost some of its lustre, I always though Shield Wall would outlast their temporal fame. I also liked what was written about them a lot more. Kinda like The Smiths versus Depeche Mode. Concrete Dreams' side projects were embarassing, from what I recall. Not so for Shield Wall.
Anyway... Trace Dump: Though many would argue that this style was pioneered by DeeCee artist Wavefront, the style only gained mainstream credibility following the success of artists such as Uh4.17, 8th Winter, Tetsu Arashi, and Lotus. Like most descendants of the glitch genre, trace dump is characterized by circuit-bent electronics, home-assembled preamps and effects, and a heavy use of sampled sounds. What sets trace dump apart is the use of random WiFi datastreams parsed through the 'dump' - a piece of either software or hardware that maps packets (based on size, time sent, and content) to a set of drum noises. Usually these noises are snippets of audio data likewise captured from a wifi heavy setting. In this regard, trace dump could be seen as almost entirely made of 'found sound', and performances tend to be shaped and altered by the wifi activity of the audience. Calling cards: dissonant, grating, harsh, alien. Popular with: deckers, intellectual edgeculture members, disaffected but literate citizens. Bands: 8th Winter, Uh4.17, Lotus, Tetsu Arashi Real-world inspiration for GMs: Bitcrush, Gridlock, Tarmvred, Converter Upshot: The latest in a long string of youth-culture genres, upshot is the current world's response to the recent tragedies of Crash 2.0, the rise of corporate militarism, and a sense of uncertainty about the future. While in the past many punk-based genres would dwell upon the hopelessness of life and leave it to the listener to draw the conclusion to live fast and die young, upshot musicians often explicitly state their feelings on the matter. The message is simple: life sucks, but we're still alive, and we'll fight to stay that way. Popular among the young, poor and disposessed, upshot has yet to see much commercial success - but like the myriad subgenres of punk and rock over the past century, it's only a matter of time. Stylistically, upshot artists tend toward forceful and evocative yet simple lyrics, relying on their own vocal power to overshadow simple musical arrangements. While many who are not fans of the style would call the musical arrangements crude and the sound 'typical' of the culture it represents, adherents insist that an uplifting message to those who have lost hope is greatly needed. Calling cards: simple, evocative, thrashy, community-centric. Popular with: the down-and-out, punks, the poor, ork & troll communities, local thugs. Bands: Subculture Sublimation, Clenched Fist, Tunguska Real-world inspiration for GMs: Michael Graves era Misfits, "It's Not a Fashion Statement, It's a Deathwish" by My Chemical Romance (simply for instrumentation), Muse More to come later. Also, in defense of 'old music remaining popular', in some cases it's just dated. In others, however, the roots hold true. Look at certain trends that stay constant. Nick Cave's cover of "Black Betty" doesn't strike me as any more dated or 'unhip' than the original Alan Lomax recording in the 1933 (and earlier roots in the 19th century). Similarly, you can examine the soul and funk influences in GZA's highly modern Legend of the Liquid Sword and see that the form may have changed, but the general stylings remain the same. And how far has the apple of Portishead fallen from the 30s torch singer tree? I tend to figure that while there ARE fully new forms in 2070, you can trace the roots back much farther. Especially given the prevalence of late 2050s 'new agey' fusion/elven music that seems to follow the easy listening/Loreena McKennit model of reinventing much older styles. |
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Jun 25 2007, 09:57 PM
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#32
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Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 |
While we are on that subject. What year did Shield Wall release their 'big album'? The one big D gave money to?
And ahh... concrete dreams, quiet possibly the worst adventure ever. Also the only published one I have played in. Fucking vampires. |
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Jun 25 2007, 10:33 PM
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#33
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Target Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 842 |
A published run involving Concrete Dreams? Which one was that - I'm missing it :eek: |
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Jun 25 2007, 10:40 PM
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#34
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
The adventure was "Mercurial" (In Concert at Underworld 93). Never played it. Maria Mercurial was friends with the CD crew and was occasionally a guest musician for them.
I believe Shield Wall's "Mother of the Sea" was started in 2054, but was only completed in 2062. |
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Jun 26 2007, 02:19 AM
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#35
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Target Group: Members Posts: 95 Joined: 23-June 07 Member No.: 11,998 |
I simply cannot fathom machines developing the creative impulse in the same way we have. Call me simplistic or short-sighted, but I can't see machine intelligence, even self-aware machine intelligence, developing a desire for and need for music. It's a neat idea, but I just can't.. wrap my head around it. When you have the capacity of storing nearly all music ever written, when you have a limitless mathematical understanding of the theory behind music, when you can analytically grasp music, what is there left to struggle with? At its base essence, isn't music struggle? We have humans now who can play notes but never make music - I have a hard time seeing machines make that leap as well. Perhaps, in the end, that will be their true test of sentience - the creative spark that needs intuition and a "gut feeling" to survive. The true test of an AI in the gut, not the mind? Interesting. |
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Jun 26 2007, 02:35 AM
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#36
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I will, thanks :) I… well, don't precisely understand, but I think I have a vague idea of where this idea comes from. It's still an argument from ignorance, though.
Is it? Really? And if it is, why can't we simply give that to the machine? Just as we can expand the capabilities of the machine, we can also limit them.
There's no evidence that the human brain is aught but Turing-complete, so the human brain, with all its creative drives and impulses, should be perfectly (except in execution speed) emulatable by any other Turing-complete machine+language. ~J |
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Jun 26 2007, 02:51 AM
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#37
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Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 |
Mucho gusto. It was years and years ago, so the details where fuzzy. But thanks for that info. |
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Jun 26 2007, 03:50 AM
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#38
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Target Group: Members Posts: 95 Joined: 23-June 07 Member No.: 11,998 |
I think it comes from a desire to remain superior to my Xbox360. I may be small minded, but at least I'm honest. Part of me desperately wants to believe that there are certain things, elements of the human spirit, machines will never be able to duplicate. Call it.. call it wretchedly holding on to superiority. This, like all things, will pass. I, for one, welcome our new metal overlords. If Star Trek taught us one thing, it's that the metal man gets all the chicks. Stupid vibrating sum'bitches. |
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Jun 26 2007, 07:06 AM
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#39
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
I can imagine a socially-polarized Sixth World in which there are only two types of music, Punk and Elevator.
There is no music within the Arcologies, only Muzak. Of course, 80s hardcore Punk is the quintessential Shadowrun music. The inclusion of excessive amounts of gratuitous Punk can really help being an SR game back to its roots. I also imagine that The Blues would be popular in the Shadows and the streets, considering all of the depressed f-ed-up people living there. I so have this image of a baddass Shadowrunner playing an electric blues guitar for the nine-tenths-naked elf nymphomanic who is chained to his radiator. |
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Jun 26 2007, 07:12 AM
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#40
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
You know hyzmarca, now I'm so going to have to use that image. :cyber:
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Jun 26 2007, 07:31 AM
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#41
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Ten karma if you can guess which best movie ever made I blatantly stole that image from. :D
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Jun 26 2007, 08:48 AM
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#42
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Not impossible. All of our current evidence points the other way, but you never know. ~J |
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Jun 26 2007, 10:17 AM
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#43
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,286 Joined: 24-May 05 From: A 10x10 room with an orc and a treasure chest Member No.: 7,409 |
Black Snake Moan ;) |
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Jun 26 2007, 10:13 PM
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#44
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...speed metal polka.
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Jun 26 2007, 10:28 PM
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#45
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
10 karma and a cookie :cyber: While having absolutely nothing to do with crime, magic, or high-tech futures, BSM could be an excellent Shadowrun movie. How about Celtic folk music? It would probably be popular among the Tirs. |
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Jun 26 2007, 11:02 PM
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#46
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
I want a physad with Unarmed Combat (Riverdance). It could double as an artistic skill for centering! GM objections to using Rifles as a centering skill is one thing, but how could any GM possibly claim that Riverdance doesn't count as a centering skill? Besides, I think it's infinitely less lame to have a concentration in Riverdance than it is to have a concentration in Kick Attacks. What kind of mercenary is going to specialize in kick attacks, after all? Riverdancing, though...
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Jun 27 2007, 02:19 AM
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#47
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...and here I was considering using the Fish Slapping Dance as a centering skill, :silly: me...
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Jun 27 2007, 11:24 PM
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#48
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 109 Joined: 29-March 03 From: Tir Tarngiere Member No.: 4,353 |
I've kind of figured a genre of music per edition (or so).
1st Edition) Hair Rock (Poison, Motley Crue, Etc.), Punk & Heavy Metal 2nd Edition) Grunge Rock (Nirvana, Alice In Chains), Punk & Thrash Metal 3rd Edition) Alternative, Punk, Rap (with the start of the "Orksploitation" craze) 4th Edition) Hip-Hop/Rap, Punk, Speed/Thrash Metal, Heavy Metal |
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Jun 28 2007, 05:41 AM
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#49
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 197 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,542 |
Yeah they'd post it on the SR YouTube and it would look something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTwRDJ_mWZE...related&search= or Dear God something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqJekVzYk2o But it probably wouldn't be like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uPlIaF65PM Although an Ork might make something like that. |
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Jun 28 2007, 05:59 AM
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#50
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 197 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,542 |
Right. And smart people during the Enlightenment thought if you rammed enough electricity into a corpse it would come back to life. Besides evidence on what could be I think I'll reserve my judgment until the first robot suffers existential angst over understanding his Dasein. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQcUS4chhc4 |
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