 Me = New GM, Ugh |
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 Jun 28 2007, 06:10 PM
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#26
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Technomancer  Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374  |
Talk to the parents if you need to or, better yet, talk to her. It sounds like you don't want to run the game for a group so large so tell one of the other people that are knowledgable to run a second game while you run yours. Then both groups get smaller parties and the young woman will be in the other game.
It sounds to me like you agreed to run a game for a group and then after that agreement took place, the group changed. That means you can change your decision, too, if this is starting to become something you don't want to do. And you say "underage goth" like it's a bad thing .... I was an underage goth back in the day :silly: |
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Jun 28 2007, 06:22 PM
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#27
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,706 Joined: 30-June 06 From: Fort Wayne, IN Member No.: 8,814 |
Heh...I guess I am a bit worried here because it sounds like there are like 6-10 players this new GM is going to be running for, yet he is worried about the one girl...in a group that big, especially with some new players, I probably wouldn't even remember all the new people's name come the first session:)
And I think that is why it could be a problem, because the GM is already singling out the girl before even rolling a single die... |
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Jun 28 2007, 06:32 PM
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#28
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 123 Joined: 7-October 05 From: Glow City Safehouse Member No.: 7,821 |
Against new players, here are my suggested levels If they are just thugs with bats, probably about 16 to 20 throughout the building, operating in packs of 4 to 8 If they are a little more experianced (Experianced Ganger level) I'd say 12 to 16, operating in groups of 3 to 6 But this also depends on the characters and conditions. In general I'd argue there are three factors to consider: Type of PCs: If they are combat heavy you can add more, if they are hacker and face heavy you should knock down. If they are mages, then do an open area over a alley fight, so forth. Also, remember, with faces and hacker types, as well as sneak type characters, they go around fights when possible, so for them to make it a challenge you need a notable character (more experianced) to deal with them, not more of them. For combat, look at Edge levels and automatic weapons: Suppression fire can be a bitch if used on people in the open. Or even not in the open. If they have low edge, give the bad guys semi auto weapondry. If they have a high average, SMGs and AKs all around! Location: A fight in the barrens with it's debris choked streets is one thing, a mess up near the mobile terrain of central seattle is another. |
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Jun 28 2007, 06:35 PM
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#29
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Target Group: Members Posts: 16 Joined: 27-June 07 Member No.: 12,063 |
Look, its 6 players, two of which I know, and two of which are freinds of those two I know. And it was originally ment as a joke to go along with my actual problems. Keep your white makeup on ;) Back to the original problem of running this game, what is the best way to teach oneself the rules? Should I simply read the book through, or run through the adventure myself with the some characters in the core rule book as a mock-up? |
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Jun 28 2007, 06:43 PM
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#30
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
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Jun 28 2007, 06:48 PM
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#31
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,677 Joined: 5-June 03 Member No.: 4,689 |
It sounds like the girl stands out for three major reasons:
The immediate issues are an uneasiness with the unfamiliar and someone not known or vouched for besides, an alcohol issue (since you guys were planning on drinking), and a concern how it will be seen by others that an underage girl is hanging out with these guys. Unfamiliar I can't help you with. All I can say is that all of you will initially come across as unfamiliar to the others, potentially even to the same degree: but that in most cases it won't be gender-aggravated. That's just ice to be broken, if it can. Alcohol -- my own experience with my first group, I was also underage, they were drinkers, they didn't know me from Eve. As it happened, I didn't drink. It was all cool. I was there for the gaming. Several years later I ended up splitting from that group, in part because I preferred to game without being drunk -- but it was amicable, and again several years later. And then I ended up starting my own group -- and some of them were young teenagers also, completely unknown to me except in a common interest in roleplaying. You'll just have to decide what your alcohol policy is going to be for everyone who is underage -- good odds a couple of the others might be as well, after all -- and then stick to it. Btw, would it crimp your style to set the alcohol to one side for everyone for that first session? It would make life simpler all around. A late teenage girl hanging out with a group of guys shouldn't generally raise any eyebrows in a quasi-college environment. (In saying all this I'm assuming, of course, that you aren't referring to a generally chaperone-type social environment.) The group environment does alter perception; so if you guys decide to hang out afterwards, it's a group thing, so do it as a group. She's young enough relative to you that I'm going to guess there should be no romantic interest by you guys. After all it's a gaming night among potential friends, not a date. During the gaming night, she's just one of the guys, and that's the way everyone treats it, her included. It's probably already known that webpages are sometimes as much wish-fulfillment as reality, yes? |
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Jun 28 2007, 06:51 PM
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#32
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Target Group: Members Posts: 16 Joined: 27-June 07 Member No.: 12,063 |
I don't know how this turned into a "can you handle gaming with a girl" thread. I've rarely played in all-male games, and when I did I was outnumbered by my gay friends (funny stories abound). Honestly I was half-joking at the expense of her age and gothic-bent. Seriously, don't paint me as this xenophobic misogynistic GM! Its kind of frustrating seeing the thread derail like this. The alcohol thing is fine, my IPAs can wait.
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Jun 28 2007, 07:02 PM
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#33
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Target Group: Members Posts: 74 Joined: 28-September 06 Member No.: 9,490 |
If you are only worried about age and maturity, I would say let her play and see how it goes. Certainly its possible that she will not fit in well with the group. Its also possible though that she'll make for an excellent member of your group.
Particularly with another female present in the group, I would not be concerned. Good luck and have fun! |
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Jun 28 2007, 07:10 PM
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#34
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Target Group: Members Posts: 16 Joined: 27-June 07 Member No.: 12,063 |
Back to my ORIGINAL concern (sigh) if I wanted to set up an office complex, unfinished, with minimal security but enough to be challenging, what would I do? Sensors, drones, etc? I was planning on including maybe some sort of paracritter watchdogs. *shrug*. Also, was 400bp too much? Originally I had thought there would be 3-4 players and this would be a low key run. Now with 5-6 players, does the "feel" of the game change from up and coming runners to well practiced running machines?
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Jun 28 2007, 07:11 PM
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#35
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
I'd advise against having someone sitting there watching. It has so many negatives compared that same person joining in. I have it as a hard-rule at my place. If you're there, you play. Other people are not there to provide you with a show. Regarding the sixteen year old girl, it doesn't sound as though your concerned about her, as you are concerned about what her parents will think. That's for her to deal with, not you. She's sixteen and old enough to be deciding whether or not she wants to hang out with you all, drink or not, etc. You shouldn't let other people be the arbiter of what you think is right or wrong. As to adventures, I have a game that is specifically written to be an introductory adventure. It has a lot of the dice rolls that are needed to accomplish specific things such as subverting cameras, locks, hacking drones, etc. explicitly listed. The power-level is low and somewhat kind to inexperienced players, but it should be fun. The direct link is here. Let me know if it's any use. I would also recommend enforcing pregen characters initially. It sounds like you have a few descenders heading your way and they'll have their own preconceived ideas of what the game should be and that will probably be to their benefit. Descenders is my term for those people who just suddenly descend on you from nowhere and start overturning everything. I had an unpleasant experience with a game I ran for a few friends when suddenly dedicated role-players descended upon us and started turning everything around. Having pre-gen characters ready to hand out which you are familiar with is a good way to do an introductory game when you're not fully comfortable with the rules. Hope this is useful, -K. |
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Jun 28 2007, 07:24 PM
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#36
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
400BP is good. It's standard and will let you get a feel for things. The BP cost isn't nearly as much of a factor as how a player decides to spend them. The variation in "power" between characters at the same cost can be huge. One thing I would recommend is placing emphasis on tactics more than on the power of the opponents. I.e. give some thought to how the drone or security guards can pin the team from both ends of an open corridor, etc. Thinking like that makes things both more real for the players and enables you to adjust the threat level on the fly. Build some reinforcements into the mission from the very start. Make the players aware that they need to be subtle and this will let you smooth out power discrepancies between them and the opponents. And it will let you easily trip an alarm and send in more if you find that you've misjudged things and need to beef up the resistance. A good one would be to have the team infiltrate a fairly secure facility during a major Urban Brawl final (UCAS vs. NAN perhaps). Thus most of the security force are naughtily drinking synthahol in their guard house before the trid set, but might come pouring out if the players mess up. Instant, in game, power-adjustment. Same goes for the rapid response reinforcements from off-site. Paracritters are good, but put them somewhere where they can actually be a threat. A Hell Hound wont be scary if the players see it running around a compound and shoot it dead from 400m away, but it will be if they open a door four feet of black hair and teeth leap out at them. 5-6 players does change things. Unless they have a very poor composition, they'll be able to wipe through considerable opposition. I would suggest a large site where poor tactics can rapidly lead to them being cut off. Let the hacker give them a running commentary on how the drone squad is closing in, etc. |
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Jun 28 2007, 07:26 PM
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#37
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Target Group: Members Posts: 16 Joined: 27-June 07 Member No.: 12,063 |
That should be helpful.
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Jun 28 2007, 07:33 PM
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#38
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
400BP is the standard. I'd leave it at that. I've gamed for groups of 6 characters at 400BP and it's worked out. The big thing to do is look at what overlaps you have. If 4 of 6 players are going to eat any normal competition for breakfast, make sure you have some more difficult NPCs that will challenge them. Also, don't underestimate the value of tactics (cover, combat drugs, and suppression fire especially) on your mobs. As for building security, it's up to you. If you have a hacker/technomancer, make sure that you have something for them to hack. Make sure you've thought about how they can get control of the cameras or of the door locks. Does the building have a central security system from which both of these devices (or sets of devices) can be controlled once the hacker gets access? Or, will they have to hack each device as they go. I usually don't worry too much about drones. It'll depend on the GM, but I generally find that I have enough problem making sure that my NPCs are acting in a way that they would that to add drones onto that task is usually more than I care about. Usually, my bigger focus is not with drones but rather on NPC spirits because I can usually get my players to agree that with spirit vs. spirit combat, the spirit of higher force wins, and the spirit of higher force takes damage equal to the spirit of the lesser force by the end of the combat turn. That way, spirits can be used to counter other spirits. I would make sure that there is some sensor based security. Whether they have biometric door locks or pressure plats outside of key laboratories or security session. I've also had a lot of success with some more obvious security like MAD detectors in the lobby to try and reduce the weapons or to at least for the players to deal with that problem. |
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Jun 28 2007, 07:40 PM
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#39
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,677 Joined: 5-June 03 Member No.: 4,689 |
I'll lay off the newbie girl angle -- only one post of three in this thread in any case -- and you've already had my two cents about starting with unfamiliar players in an unfamiliar game system. And now you've got several pointers to quick game rules familiarisation. But as to
let me know what you would think, reading this:
It's the only time you expressed actual worry. Edit: And your later post, this page, further clarified that she was the only one of the new players who wasn't either a friend or a friend of a friend. |
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Jun 28 2007, 07:42 PM
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#40
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Ooh, a fellow hop-head and beer-snob. IPAs are my favorite! ;) |
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Jun 28 2007, 07:49 PM
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#41
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Target Group: Members Posts: 16 Joined: 27-June 07 Member No.: 12,063 |
My bad Talia. I wrote that message like 2 minutes after I found out about this perspective player, and wasn't really thinking. Anyway, for knasser's "cold-blooded" adventure, I am definitely going to use some of your material retrofitted for my plans, but you never include how much the shadow runners will receive for this service. How much should a run like this earn?
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Jun 28 2007, 08:06 PM
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#42
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,706 Joined: 30-June 06 From: Fort Wayne, IN Member No.: 8,814 |
The best way to learn the rules...honestly, is to play. I read through the combat section about three times before I actually ran a game (and this is coming from a longtime DM/GM, in multiple game systems). I learned the most while playing and to this day, I still keep a copy of the core rules by "my throne" and page through, normally picking something up that I didn't catch before.
From my experience, most fights are last between 3 and 6 IPs (so under two combat turns). Granted, these are players with mostly 3IPs, so things get done pretty quick. What I would do is set up a wave of gangers, if you have 5-6 in the party, then make it 8 gangers. Don't double the opponent, for the first combat. Then, just see how combat goes...if the runners kill a few but are really struggling, have the gangers run away because of a nearby siren. If the runners dispose of the 8 gangers pretty quickly, you know that you either need to increase numbers, increase their power level or use different strategy to present them with a challenge. There's no one rule that is going to help you out, you just have to find what your group needs for a challenge. Sometimes that will be more firepower or bigger numbers, other times that will simply be to hurl a couple spells... For a first run, regardless of what you have them do, I would pay them more than 5,000 to 7,500 nuyen a piece...you don't want to go too high and have them always expect a lot of nuyen...its also not too low for a few hours worth of work... |
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Jun 28 2007, 08:18 PM
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#43
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Target Group: Members Posts: 74 Joined: 28-September 06 Member No.: 9,490 |
excellent advice deek. The only thing to be careful of with the multiple waves, is that sometimes a fight can go real easy for one side because of the luck of the dice, but there really isn't anything you can do about that.
Still, even if the second wave starts to mop up on your PCs, you can still have them run away when the sirens start blaring. This could even work within your building under construction setting. Perhaps the developers, hoping to save a little cash, decided to hire a band of really affordable mercs to handle security instead of going with a professional outfit. The problem of course is that these "cheap mercs" want almost anything but contact with law enforcement authorities. |
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Jun 28 2007, 08:25 PM
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#44
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
I'd like to toss in my support for this one. I once made the major mistake of using paracritters ineffectively, and it soured me on 'critters for a long time, which I now realize probably took away a really positive element that my games could have had. I basically set it up so that in the middle of the desert at an abandoned SETI listening site, there were giant scorpion things (forget the exact name, but think Radscorpions ;)) that had a nest there. Well, since they were just tooling around out in the open (just some prairie scrub, no real cover or concealment), the team had no problems with them, and they seemed very ineffective and boring. Had I been more careful about where and how I used them, it would have been an interesting combat, something outside the "norm" of hosing down meta goons. And IPAs are good, but sometimes you just need a heady black ale. :) |
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Jun 28 2007, 08:46 PM
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#45
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 14-December 06 Member No.: 10,360 |
*cough* Stout *cough* Porter *cough*
Unfortunately, I've never been able to effectively gauge the difficulty of encounters in SR. That, or my combat tactics aren't very good. Also, I have a tendency to fudge rolls in favor of PCs far too often. It's a habit I need to get out of, and nobody should ever pick up. Seriously. Don't be afraid to hurt the player characters. That's what street docs and DocWagon/CrashCart are for. |
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Jun 28 2007, 10:54 PM
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#46
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
I? Miss Something Out? How Dare You! Page 10, near the bottom:
;) :P It's not a difficult run. It's a taster. I figured this was a good start and it fits his reasources. As to the how to treat the characters - firstly, make good use of tactics for the opposition. It will set the tone of reality and danger just as well as any solid description you come up with. There's nothing that says Shadowrun like being shot in the back by an unwired, mundane 10 nuyen an hour security guard. Secondly, I always recommend killing a PC or two in the first couple of sessions. You can start mean and ease off, but you can't start easy and get mean. -K. |
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Jun 29 2007, 03:25 AM
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#47
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,180 Joined: 22-January 07 From: Rochester, NY Member No.: 10,737 |
Well, my friend came and watched--after about an hour, she asked to see the BBB and started generating up a character. She's planning on joining us in another two weeks, which will give us time to go over the rules and flesh out her character. And, amusingly, she's planning on being an Awakened elf eco-radical from the Tir; the reason that she picked the elf metatype is simple: because her hometown is Portland, and when she asked what had happened to it, we gave her the straight answer. :)
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Jun 29 2007, 06:08 AM
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#48
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
One of the most important things you can do as a new GM is to set the tone of the game before everybody hits the table. Did you want Heat? The Matrix? When Gravity Fails? The Diamond Age?
A common failure point for new GMs goes something like this: Player one: cool, we are playing SR, that'll be like Sneakers, I'll make a sneaky hacker guy who is trying to pay off his student loans. Player two: cool, we are playing SR. That'll be like Apocalypse Now. I am sorry, Mr Johnson, I am unaware of any such run; and even if I were, I would not be able to discuss such details with you. Players three: cool, we are playing SR. That'll be like West Side Story but with trolls and elves. I'll make a troll ganger iwth a heart of gold, and he'll be able to sing and dance up a storm... SR can be used to run any of the above games, but I doubt they will all fit together at the same table. Oh, and behold the power of thread necromancy: A survey about great GM's, What makes or breaks a great GM Ten commandments of interactive storytelling, Rules and cool stuff do not a story make |
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Jul 1 2007, 03:02 PM
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#49
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Target Group: Members Posts: 74 Joined: 28-September 06 Member No.: 9,490 |
Great to hear. Sounds like y'all had fun, which is certainly the definition of a succesful session. |
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