 Roll Perception:, Okay, I roll and draw my gun. |
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 Jun 28 2007, 10:49 PM
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#26
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 511 Joined: 24-March 05 From: On a ledge between Heaven and Hell Member No.: 7,226  |
Just an idea. How about asking the players to roll perception when none is really needed and then keeping track of the hits untill something does pop-up. That way you can know if the characters spot something, any edge rolled might not be wasted for a bogus roll, and players don't have the chance to say, "Hey we all failed out perception roll. Perhaps we should search the area?"
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Jun 28 2007, 11:57 PM
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#27
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 993 Joined: 5-December 05 From: Crying in the wilderness Member No.: 8,047 |
Compulsively rolling dice, asking for 'false' rolls, rolling for your players and on some occassions out right lying to your players are tried and true ref techniques.
In SR3 the classic was, "Do I get Alertness for this roll?" Answer yes. All the time. That way they never know if someone is sneaking up on them or picking their pocket unless they pass the roll. |
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Jun 29 2007, 12:32 AM
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#28
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...you weren't in my old Space Opera campaign by chance?. While the players were sitting there talking things over amongst themselves I would pick up some dice, roll them, then look around at the group occasionally raising an eyebrow. I would follow this by making it appear I was "writing" something down on the notepad I had behind the screen (actually, I was just doodling). Man they became a paranoid lot :vegm: |
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Jun 29 2007, 06:51 AM
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#29
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Multi Tasking + 22+ Perception Dice = I'm always Observing in Detail unless otherwise stated and with 22 dice, I got 16 dice even in Full Darkness. Ambush? What be that? You will tell me everything that is relevant, or you can keep coming up with unimportant minutae that my PC will Inituitively filter out anyway.
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Jun 29 2007, 07:50 AM
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#30
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
You could require that players determine when to make perception tests and simply assume that they aren't paying attention when they don't. Or, you could go the route of making secret team perception rolls every now and then and just don't tall your players what the rolls are about.
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Jun 29 2007, 07:55 AM
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#31
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
That's a great way of making them leave. |
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Jun 29 2007, 03:47 PM
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#32
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Target Group: Members Posts: 94 Joined: 27-March 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 4,341 |
or of bogging your game down as they make another perception test before and after every single action they or any npc takes.
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Jun 29 2007, 05:52 PM
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#33
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Can't help on edge, but in answer to the rest of this question: Easy, have players that aren't metagaming their asses off every five seconds. Perception test results dictate whether the characters know/see/hear/smell/taste that something is up. If they fail, and the player tries to take some sort of action that would have been the product of a success, tell them to knock that lame crap the fuck off. Then drop a cow on them. ;) |
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Jun 29 2007, 05:59 PM
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#34
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
I don't know, personally I just tend to use the 'buy hits' rule as a guideline for what the Runners tend to notice if they aren't playing close attention to something.
Of course, once in a while I call for a roll either real or imagined, and if they spend Edge on a useless roll then that's just hard luck, but most of the time my players know better then to spend Edge when I call for a Perception Test unless they Glitch. It's not perfect by any means, but it works for my group. |
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Jun 29 2007, 06:04 PM
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#35
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
No disrespect man, but you and a lot of other people are missing my point. I think the way I phrased the issue confused things a bit; sorry about that. It's not about the character literally drawing a gun, or the character taking any sort of action at all. It's about the players knowing that something is up. If they're good players, they won't metagame and act based on that knowledge. You're absolutely right. I have generally been blessed with very good players who are great at not metagaming. In fact it really isn't something I've had a problem with, but it came up in another thread and seemed interesting. And the edge thing is something I'm not quite sure how to handle. But as great as my players are, no one can completely ignore something once it is known, and at the very least it affects the mood at the table. It's not about character actions, and it's not about character knowledge. Non-metagaming takes care of that just fine. It's about player knowledge, and the unavoidable and subconscious effects. |
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Jun 29 2007, 06:09 PM
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#36
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 123 Joined: 7-October 05 From: Glow City Safehouse Member No.: 7,821 |
The only way to stop that is to do what many of us have advised, which is to roll in secret or to just use the 'buy hits' rule. If you ask for a roll, it will cause concern. If they fail, they know they did. The only way out therefore is if there is no roll. at least no roll for the PC to see. |
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Jun 29 2007, 06:12 PM
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#37
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Make secret rolls for them, that's the best way to keep them in the dark. I think that its pretty silly to spend edge on a routine perception test. I'd let them do so if they were intentionally observing, but not for a routine perception test. Just use the team perception test rules (highest pool, +1 for every member of the team, -2 penalty for not actually looking for anything in particular).
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Jun 29 2007, 06:13 PM
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#38
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Routine tests don't need rolls - they are just bought.
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