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> Dual nature, Fighting physically in an astral world
Talia Invierno
post Jul 4 2007, 05:56 AM
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For astral projection, the mental attributes replace the physical ones.

What about dual-natured combat? Does the dual-natured critter or assensing adept use mental attributes, or physical?
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Particle_Beam
post Jul 4 2007, 06:07 AM
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Physical.

Here's the exact quotation.
QUOTE
Astral combat is resolved in the same way as physical combat. Astrally perceiving and dual natured characters use their Physical attributes and skills to fight opponents with a physical body, and their Willpower + Astral Combat skill to fight wholly astral entities. Astrally projecting characters use their Mental attributes in place of Physical ones (see the Astral Attributes Table, above) along with the Astral Combat skill.
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Talia Invierno
post Jul 4 2007, 06:55 AM
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Gah. I looked and looked, and didn't find that. Where?

And actually, by that quote, wouldn't it be mental for astral combat? not in the same manner as full projection, but only allowing WL?

Btw, WL used to be an option for everyone in attacking spirits -- what's different? Besides the addition of the Astral Combat skill, that is.
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redne
post Jul 4 2007, 01:45 PM
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It seems to be SR4 p.184, under Astral Combat.
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Particle_Beam
post Jul 4 2007, 01:56 PM
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Well, it's on page 184, under the astral combat section.

The attack of will alternative against spirits is described in Street Magic, where you're pitting your willpower+banishing (if avaiable) against the spirits formidable combat abilities. Suffice to say that only mages should try to attempt it.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Jul 4 2007, 01:58 PM
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QUOTE (Particle_Beam @ Jul 4 2007, 08:07 AM)
Physical.

Here's the exact quotation.
QUOTE
Astral combat is resolved in the same way as physical combat. Astrally perceiving and dual natured characters use their Physical attributes and skills to fight opponents with a physical body, and their Willpower + Astral Combat skill to fight wholly astral entities. Astrally projecting characters use their Mental attributes in place of Physical ones (see the Astral Attributes Table, above) along with the Astral Combat skill.

You mean 'Mental'.
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Particle_Beam
post Jul 4 2007, 02:35 PM
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Depends. We are talking about damage resistance tests, dodge and the damage attribute while you're dual or only astraly perceiving, I guess, which are still physical.
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tehbighead
post Jul 5 2007, 01:10 AM
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if you are using your astrally-perceiving meatbody to attack a projected target, it would be mental. if it's a-p meat v. dual-natured target, it would be physical.
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FrankTrollman
post Jul 5 2007, 03:15 AM
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It is as far as I know completely intentional that dual natured creatures can use Unarmed Combat + Agility to fight off astral forms. And no, it seriously doesn't say that anywhere. The discussion of dual creatures was cut from Street Magic because it "fit better" in Running Wild.

But while the book says outright that a hellhound would have to make a Willpower + Astral Combat check to attack an astral form, which it can't do under any circumstances because it doesn't have Astral Combat and that skill is no-default, that is not how it is supposed to work. That is supposed to get cleared up in Running Wild.

-Frank
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Talia Invierno
post Jul 5 2007, 04:34 AM
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The hellhound example was what I did spot, and didn't understand how to apply it. I thought I was missing something obvious. At first, it was looking as though I was.

Hmm, isn't this one of those core mechanics things that ought to belong in a core rulebook? especially considering that anyone astrally perceiving is considered dual-natured?
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FrankTrollman
post Jul 5 2007, 04:47 AM
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QUOTE (Talia Invierno)
The hellhound example was what I did spot, and didn't understand how to apply it. I thought I was missing something obvious. At first, it was looking as though I was.

Hmm, isn't this one of those core mechanics things that ought to belong in a core rulebook? especially considering that anyone astrally perceiving is considered dual-natured?

Yes. I nominated it for errata actually, but apparently it's going to be handled in Running Wild.

-Frank
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hyzmarca
post Jul 5 2007, 05:23 AM
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http://www.amazon.com/Techniques-Astral-Co...s/dp/0595215122 :D
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fistandantilus4....
post Jul 5 2007, 05:26 AM
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Awesome hyzmarca! That should help loads. I do wonder which edition of rules it addresses though.

QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Your name is Toby

No it isn't. It's Ben silly. :P
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