 Spirit Volume, Is pillowpants possible? |
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 Jul 4 2007, 07:48 AM
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#1
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Midnight Toker  Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456  |
So, I'm wondering what is the minimum (and maximum) volume that a materialized spirit of a certain force can occupy. I ask this question because there are many potential uses for a very small but very powerful spirit, including the one referred to in the topic description. A bound Task spirit could, for example, live inside an automobile engine and repair it on the fly if it could materialize within the tiny space.
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Jul 4 2007, 08:13 AM
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#2
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
you are a monster.
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Jul 4 2007, 09:15 AM
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#3
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
There was very nearly going to be a statement of this in Street Magic, but it was felt that a lot of people wouldn't understand what "30 liters" meant. But yeah, your spirit is at least 10 liters per force. And no more than 60 liters per force.
An average human, for comparison, is 70 liters. -Frank |
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Jul 4 2007, 10:00 AM
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#4
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Well, that's just depressing. But, I suppose that we could create a pillowpants using a Possession (or Inhabitation) spirit and a small troll-shaped homunculus.
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Jul 4 2007, 10:14 AM
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#5
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
That's why we have SI units: dm³. :P |
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Jul 4 2007, 10:23 AM
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#6
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
10 liters still makes Pillowpants a possibility, with some girls.
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Jul 4 2007, 10:40 AM
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#7
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
What women are you dating!? Where are these girls that have 2.64 gallon capacity vaginas? :proof: Now, I've see some videos made by one Denni O and friends but, while truly prodigious in size, those do not come anywhere near to 10 liters and they're giant insertion professionals. |
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Jul 4 2007, 10:42 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 410 Joined: 5-April 07 From: Vancouver, BC Member No.: 11,383 |
yeah, thats 2 1/2 milk jugs. thats bigger than most babies.
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Jul 4 2007, 11:24 AM
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#9
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Wow, it's almost like I was making a joke or something, huh?
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Jul 7 2007, 08:25 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 524 Joined: 12-April 06 Member No.: 8,455 |
Hmmm.
So does this preclude giving your ally a housefly form for materialized sneaking? |
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Jul 7 2007, 08:33 PM
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#11
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
No, it doesn't.
It just would be quite a large housefly... and isn't a really good idea otherwise, either. |
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Jul 7 2007, 08:40 PM
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#12
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,180 Joined: 22-January 07 From: Rochester, NY Member No.: 10,737 |
Yeah, does Immunity to Normal Weapons work against fly swatters? Afterall, it's not a normal weapon... :D |
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Jul 7 2007, 08:43 PM
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#13
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Sure - but when people see large Insects buzzing around, they tend get a tad nervous...
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Jul 7 2007, 09:05 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 13-July 06 From: Long Beach Sacrifice Zone Member No.: 8,885 |
I'm still trying to figure out how an ally spirit can materialize into a working motorcycle, a la 'Burning Time'.
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Jul 7 2007, 10:47 PM
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#15
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Artistic Licence.
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Jul 8 2007, 02:36 AM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 472 Joined: 14-June 07 Member No.: 11,909 |
Though with the example of the ally spirit materializing into a toaster and being even able to copy the function of toasting bread, the writers seem to have maken the motorcycle-materialization-spirit more valid... Which I rather see as a bad thing... :S
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Jul 9 2007, 02:03 AM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 734 Joined: 30-August 05 Member No.: 7,646 |
I've actually stumbled upon a handy website for this sort of thing. Convert-Me.com Incredibly handy (particularly when I come accross documents where the author forgot to include the units on some measurement. /scowl. |
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Jul 9 2007, 03:09 AM
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#18
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,251 Joined: 11-September 04 From: GA Member No.: 6,651 |
Source? |
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Jul 9 2007, 03:13 AM
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#19
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
he's a freelancer who did a lot of the work on street magic. he *is* the source, so to speak =P (that doesn't make the information official, it just gives you an idea of what they were thinking, and helps you keep things straight) =P on a side note, this kinda/sorta (but not really) makes possession allies not quite so bad with the nerfbat beating they received... sorta... but not really... |
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Jul 10 2007, 02:02 AM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 232 Joined: 19-October 04 Member No.: 6,773 |
It doesnt give you an idea of what "they" were thinking. It gives you an idea of what "he" was thinking. Frank's ideas about Shadowrun often differ significantly from what the developers ideas are, and what cannon is. It drives me up the wall that he constantly misrepresents his house rules and biases as actual rules and factual setting information. |
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Jul 10 2007, 02:48 AM
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#21
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
frank has always been quite clear on the source for his information. he doesn't ever say "this is official", he much more often says "here's some things that were considered, here's why it was considered, and here's why it didn't make it in".
in fact, i have never seen frank claim any of his houserules to be official, or even to imply that any of his houserules were official. perhaps you should try not making up what frank says, and you'll find it to be more reasonable. |
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Jul 10 2007, 03:06 AM
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#22
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I have to agree with Jaid on this. I have never seen Frank misrepresent his house rules as official. He always takes pains to be quite specific.
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Jul 10 2007, 09:37 AM
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#23
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Thank you. I do try to keep a solid line between my personal play style, my opinions, and the opinions of Catalyst Game Labs. In the case of spirit volume, it was on the table to give a solid size range for materialized spirits of 10-60 liters per Force point. This was bounced on the grounds that discussions of liters for human shaped objects was confusing to a sizable portion of people. And there's a certain amount of truth to that. A 70 liter object that is shaped like a man stands about 170 cm tall - a perfectly respectable height all told. But a cube of 70 liters is only 41 cm on a side - it's something that a dwarf could seriously sit on. The sheer lack of volume that compact shapes like spheres and cubes actually have is quite non-intuitive for a lot of people. So that's the reason that "spirit volume" didn't get a side bar in Street Magic. There was a write up of it with that seemingly simple guideline and it was cut because it seemed to confuse as many people as it enlightened. But if you were going to have such a guideline, that is what it would have been. -Frank |
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Jul 10 2007, 12:44 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 932 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando, Florida Member No.: 1,042 |
You definitely do not want Pillowpants in Shadowrun. Not only would it be terrible for everybody's sex lives, it would totally remodel the tactical side of the game if a force 5 earth spirit could be four inches tall. It could hide in a desk drawer. It would get huge pluses for stealth, as if the ability to switch in and out of the astral wasn't stealthy enough, and a strong argument could be made that it's size should impose penalties on attempts to attack it.
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Jul 10 2007, 02:38 PM
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#25
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
Possibly, it also might grant large bonuses in melee for opponents, due to lacking any reach. I generally assume that spirits are human-sized, unless they have reach. If they have natural reach they are troll-sized or larger. I might consider allowing someone to summon small spirits, but giving appropriate penalties to stats (physical, move rate, combat, and mental) for the privilege. Remember: If they're small on the physical plane then they're small on the astral plane, and mental stats are the physical stats of the astral plane. I might give them a bit more reaction or agility, that's their bonus to stealth right there, but it wouldn't be a good trade-off rate. |
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