 *sigh* Munchkin riggers., Piss me off. |
  |
 Jul 5 2007, 03:05 AM
Post
#76
|
|
|
Horror  Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445  |
Frankly, I woulden't be so stupid as to be a bunkered rigger without at least a mage to ward the place and come riding to the astral rescue if the ward is broken. (Then, I woulden't want to be a bunkered rigger anyway).
But if I were a drone rigger and I got Accidented... Well, crap. That's gonna be a pain, but since accidents are usually quickly recoverable, I'll wait for my drones to recover, and take a shot with my Predator. |
 |
 
|
|
Jul 5 2007, 03:05 AM
Post
#77
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 114 Joined: 2-July 07 Member No.: 12,127 |
I understand why you did what you did, I just always prefer letting my players a chance to roll for their hardearned abilities instead of forcing them to come up with failsafes for every GM screw situation.
Even if a dicepool is negative, the guy can blow edge, and in this guy's case, his edge of 8 probably meant that he felt he had a chance no matter how many -dice pool mods he had. I agree that the player was being difficult, and accident to annoyance is a good way to screw up a rigger's plans, but no roll situations are pretty much the worst place a player can be in. |
|
|
|
|
Jul 5 2007, 03:14 AM
Post
#78
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
frankly, bunker riggers are much better as a mage anyways...
- ability to make wards - the fix spell - possessed drones (mmm.... great form plant spirit w/ regenerate) - access to all sorts of other wonderful spells. |
|
|
|
|
Jul 5 2007, 03:22 AM
Post
#79
|
|
|
Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Actually, DDays, he didn't. He spent all his edge previously on making Negotiation tests and otherwise having to succeed massively where a minor success would have done.
All he could have done was permenantly sacrifice edge to invoke the HoG. |
|
|
|
|
Jul 5 2007, 03:22 AM
Post
#80
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 114 Joined: 2-July 07 Member No.: 12,127 |
It's one thing to look at capabilities, another to actually do it with point costs. Sure, we would all like an ally spirit, but hefty requirements all around eh? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jul 5 2007, 03:30 AM
Post
#81
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 30-May 07 Member No.: 11,788 |
HoG is completely at the GM's discretion:: unless his life depended on it, i wouldn't have let him use it, either. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jul 5 2007, 03:36 AM
Post
#82
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 114 Joined: 2-July 07 Member No.: 12,127 |
Sorry if the lack of quote caused any confusion.
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 5 2007, 03:41 AM
Post
#83
|
|||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,251 Joined: 11-September 04 From: GA Member No.: 6,651 |
Just for the record and RAW may not support me buuuuut... physical powers like regenerate should only work while a spirit is Manifested and a Possessing spirit isn't Manifested. Again: This may be against RAW but its how I'd run it. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jul 5 2007, 04:06 AM
Post
#84
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 16-August 06 Member No.: 9,130 |
I don't think any player enjoys it when their only chance of survival and retaliation is completely removed. I really don't see how the player was being a munchkin and I think the word is way overused on these forums. Optimizing a character is not being a munchkin. I would have to see more of how this guy plays and acts before I would ever call him a munchkin.
I don't know why you were so set on disabling the drones. What is he going to do when he is engulfed by an air spirit. As long as you have taken out is wireless signal with a jammer, or interference, then he won't have any verbal communication while suffocating. Last time I checked you can't speak too well if you can't breathe. It's his fault for not having astral support. He knew this guy was a powerful mage and he didn't prepare for it. I don't see how he could blame your for that. Realistically an initiate grade 1 mage would have better than Force 3 and 5 spirits anyways. Though I would have to see this guys stats to be sure. What should have happened is you should have admitted your were wrong about the accident power and had them do crash tests. Remember, he is the one arguing with you that, that is the way it should be. He only has himself to blame if the tests fail, because he said he wanted it that way. Most likely though he would have passed the crash test and been fine. Oh well that happens, things don't always go as planned. That is what makes the game fun believe it or not. If everything was always set in stone then it wouldn't be much of an interactive experience. From there you would just have to play out what happens. If Sticks dies then it's his fault for not having better protection. I don't see this ever happening though. There is no way an initiate 1 mage should have problems with a couple of drones. Especially considering this mage has 3 spirits on site, strategically positioned, along with his set of goons for protection. It sounds like you tried to teach him a lesson and botched it up. It sounds like it happened because you didn't have too much of a grasp on the magic rules. I wouldn't recommend playing an NPC which uses rules you are unfamiliar with. That is never a good idea. In fact if you are new to the system and don't have a grasp of the rules, it might even have been a good idea to say everyone makes mundane characters and all hacking will be handled by a NPC. Lastly, hats off to you for being a GM. Experiences like this are really egregious, and are unfortunately sometimes part of being a GM. I sincerely hope this is the last time you have to run into a GM/player dispute. It seems both sides could have done more to prevent this problem and acted with disregard to the others sentiments. Both parties seem to have taken things too personally, or perhaps, it was personal from the very beginning. Out of ignorance, I can not say for sure. |
|
|
|
|
Jul 5 2007, 04:51 AM
Post
#85
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 13-July 06 From: Long Beach Sacrifice Zone Member No.: 8,885 |
And that is the key point, really. There was a disconnect between your worldview of 'don't push around a group of people able to survive in the Barrens' and his worldview of 'I can do what I want since I have uber drones', and frankly, I agree with your decisions and your actions. If it helps, I totally see where you were coming from on that angle of 'they're walking out, and they've covered their ass with magic' and the character technically had no in-game means to thwart that action, so he went OOC and argued the rules. That's not something that should happen often. A good player accepts defeat. A better player accepts defeat and lives to learn from it, ensuring it never happens again. If the gangers had broken in and were thrashing the place, beating up the character, whatever, then it would have been out of line. The character would have been helpless (which does happen sometimes) and his reaction would have been understandable. But the gangers wanted no part of him or his offer and wanted to leave. @Eleazar, this wasn't a survival moment, it was a failed negotiation and the NPC party (the ganger group) wanted to leave unmolested. @Ddays, that bit about the failsafes was all me. I'm still debating the options of (if I played a hacker/rigger) coding all my pilot chips myself, just so they'd have the hardware cutoff if their guns were ever trained on me (read: if some slot hacks my drones, they won't be able to shoot me). That way, even though the drone is targetting me and trying to shoot, there is a cutoff that isn't letting the guns fire (maybe skip the autopilot program mod and hardwire the guns to only accept 'shoot or don't shoot' commands from the drone or myself, but my image is permanently 'don't shoot'). Short of uploading a new pilot program, they'd have to make do with shooting the rest of my team. The failsafes aren't for GM screwups at all, they're in place to make sure that if my drones are suddenly unable to receive new orders through ECM, interference, wi-fi blocking, etc, they don't just stop moving and wait for an order that can never come. They'd continue on their programmed action, then once that job is completed, they default to making sure I'm not in danger. Whoops, they can't see me or hear me, they would then want to find me. That way I'm not hemorrhaging drones due to one of a half-dozen ways to cut them off from communications. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jul 5 2007, 05:20 AM
Post
#86
|
|||
|
Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
So in fact, the disconnect was 'I can do what I want since I have uber drones' countered by 'But I can make happen what I want since I have uber magic!'. Very mature. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jul 5 2007, 05:23 AM
Post
#87
|
|
|
Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Stop picking fights
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 5 2007, 05:35 AM
Post
#88
|
|||
|
Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Maybe before you want to teach someone a lesson on something, you should make real sure that you know how that "something" works. Right now, all you're teaching him is GM > You, which is a lesson better taught by just kicking a problematic player out of your game. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jul 5 2007, 06:12 AM
Post
#89
|
|||
|
Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
The problem is that Accident is not a controllable effect, and thus, not a swiss army knive to make happen whatever you want. In fact, it isn't even able to perform at all as the NPCs intended - and thus, they wouldn't have chosen it. Ruling in favor of NPCs is a bad thing to do as a GM. In this case, Accident was clearly abused, no matter what the rationale. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jul 5 2007, 06:23 AM
Post
#90
|
|
|
Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Yeah. They didn't really come "loaded with anti-drone measures." They came loaded with what the GM thought were anti-drone measures (because he had "Magic > Rigging" in his head), but actually weren't.
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 5 2007, 06:34 AM
Post
#91
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
Well, it would have worked to avenge the gang leader after the drones turned him to dog food. Body 1 engulfed by a force 5 spirit kind of sucks. But this probably was not exactly how the gang leader planned it.
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 5 2007, 06:36 AM
Post
#92
|
|||
|
Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,950 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
I've seen Accident used many ways. Some GMs discard it as a useless power and some GMs rule it so that it can be extremely powerful. I do not think it could be said Accident could not work as the NPCs intended. Most times I have seen Accident invoked the GM asks what the nature of the accident is. It could be a slippery patch of pavement. I have seen it so specific as the player stating he wanted to use Accident on a locked door to cause it to open. In all cases, the GM decides what the Accident actually is, sometimes requiring a test and sometimes amounting to nothing effective and sometimes having the Accident accomplish exactly what the invoker wanted. Shadowdragon as the GM could decide how the Accident tried to effect things. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jul 5 2007, 06:39 AM
Post
#93
|
|||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
The issue is that the player gets to resist, and has a pretty good chance against a force 3 spirit. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jul 5 2007, 06:48 AM
Post
#94
|
|||||
|
Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,950 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
I agree, as I stated tried to effect things. However, it seemed that someone was saying it had no chance of happening. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jul 5 2007, 06:50 AM
Post
#95
|
|||||
|
Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Shadowdragon as the GM As far as RAW, there it is in print. He's allowed to decide what it does. I personally think that he made it a bit over convenient for the NPCs, but that's my opinion. I still think though that this is amtter that needs to be handled out of game. If the player has left, then it's handled I suppose. Bad feelings I'm sure though, which is rarely the way folks want things to go, since most people game with their friends. I think it's a matter of communicating between GMs and players about how the game world should/is going to work. Especailly since it's both a new GM andnew players. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jul 5 2007, 06:57 AM
Post
#96
|
|||
|
Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,950 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
Well, I was trying to be diplomatic and not get accused of inflaming a discussion. :) |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jul 5 2007, 08:06 AM
Post
#97
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 410 Joined: 5-April 07 From: Vancouver, BC Member No.: 11,383 |
It wouldn't matter what your odds of an accident occurring are. Anything that can happen when you glitch would be considered an accident. If you get a person without your insane dice pool then the odds of the accident are considerably higher. Why would something not be considered a normal accident for you when it would be for someone else? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jul 5 2007, 11:19 AM
Post
#98
|
|||
|
Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
No, that's the main point. Though he decides what the accident looks like, this has nothing to do what the (N)PC wishes for. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jul 5 2007, 12:28 PM
Post
#99
|
|
|
Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Which means the current bout of powergaming (from a GM) is only "fair" if from now on, every time someone uses Accident on a drone (anywhere in the game) that drone is unable to be communicated with in any way, shape, or form, for one combat round (or however long he had each Accident lasting).
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 5 2007, 02:02 PM
Post
#100
|
|
|
Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Yeah, as an apparently new DM ShadowDragon8685 made a series of bad calls, starting with accepting an unaduited character into his campaign from a player with (according to ShadowDragon8685) a history of "making little mistakes to his gain during char gen", allowing a custom drone into the game without knowing what it could do, and then using powers that he didn't fully understand as an attempt to "warn" the PC in character instead of having a nice out of character talk and laying down the law.
Now I don't know how many of you are DMs and how many are players, but as long as ShadowDragon8685 learns from this situation then his remaining players will only benefit from his mistakes and to be fair, his other player on these forums seemed happy enough with ShadowDragon8685. |
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 2nd December 2025 - 12:39 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.