SR outsells BT, Are we the Cash Cows? Options

[Larsine]

According to http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/wordpress/?p=176 SR is now more popular and sells better the CBT.

It's about time, and a reason for Adam to get that updated SR4 BBB PDF in the shops.

I've still got a ton of erratta for the SR4 3rd printing, and I would like to see if they have been included in the 4th printing, or at least get them into the 5the printing (comming in the fall according to http://catalystgamelabs.com/download/sells..._sellsheet.pdf).

Lars

[Wakshaani]

Name recognition's still on teh Battletech/Mechwarrior side, which has had far better success in merchandising/spinoffs ... see also Shadowrun Duels vs Battletech miniatures.

That being said, it really is high time for someone to come out with quality SHadowrun minis again. Technology is *way* ahead of where it was back in the early 90's and those that used to flit around are long gone.

I knid of wonder just how cool that they could get.

[cx2]

Battletech had the hugely successful Mechwarrior 2 (I played it, it kicked serious hoop). Shadowrun has had a couple obscure titles and the... well the current abomination.

Also mechs are a lot more flashy. With the right treatment SR could do well, but it has yet to really get that.

[Larsine]

SR duels was in theory a good idea, but who wants to be seen playing with 6" dolls when you can play with 1" cool miniatures.

I still think a Shadowrun click game (with standard sized miniatures) would be cool, and the miniatures could even be used when playing SR RPG.

Lars

[Cheops]

I'd like to see modular plastic miniature sets for SR. You know...buy a box that has all the parts to make 6 different models of one metatype put they come with about 8-10 different torsos and heads (but only 6 legs so you have to buy more). That way you could get the exact minis that you need to run your game and you get the fun of putting them together how you want.

[Demerzel]

Thet would be very cost prohibitive, good plastic startup costs are huge. That would be like the Space Marine Commander boxed set from GW, and that's a chunk of money (Like $20 or so) for one model with the modularity you're requesting, from a company that specializes in that style of miniature.

I'd settle for some new sculpts in metal...

[Wakshaani]

Sadly, plastic is way, way, WAY out of Shadowrun's price range, with costs of about $10,000 a sprue.

This makes metal the only affordable option.

Since the startup costs and trying to find modelers and so on is pricey, I wonder if a liscensing agreement with an existing mini company could be done? Profit sharing and so on.

Hmm...

[Demerzel]

There is already a licencing agreement witgh a mini company. Check out ironwindmetals. I think http://www.ironwindmetals.com/

CBT fans have a system where they can pay for the modeling costs of a new mini and IWM will have it made. I wonder if something similar could be worked out for SR, or if the SR demand is just way too low. Consider how unknown the mini line already is...

[PBTHHHHT]

link no work. You mispelled and added a 'd' between iron and wind.
http://www.ironwindmetals.com/

[Demerzel]

I would call that less a misspelling and more a typo...

Now mispelled is a misspelling. :P
http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/misspelling

[PBTHHHHT]

could be a typo. ;-)

[Abbandon]

I want some shadowrun movies. Any one of the old or new novels are like ten times better than any of the sci-fi movies they come up with. It would be sweet to see Shadowrun visualized on the big screen. And it would definately make it explode.

I would have never heard of Shadowrun if I had not had a Super Nintendo and played a game called Mechwarrior and read an article about it in Nintendo Power!! Thats where i learned about battletech and FASA and from there Shadowrun.

Battletech is alot more cut and dry to. Two sides meet, try to kill each other, somebody wins. Shadowrun is more about expressing your feelings and lifting some guys security card without him noticing.

[cx2]

Bear in mind Battletech can have military campaigns for the wargamers too with need to deal with supplies etc... and there is always the RPG product for battletech. It isn't quite as cut and dried.

With the right exposure though Shadowrun could shine. CBT got a lot more exposure. Also I believe one or two female characters in the story got plenty of exposure too as I hear, laugh.

[Demerzel]

[Zolhex]

[Cheops]

[Demerzel]

Well, they didn't sell the mini rights. They still belong to WizKids, it's just that WK licences it out to IWM much like they now (Or in the near future, if the deal isn't complete yet) will be licensing out SR and CBT to Catalyst.

If I could stop painting Mechs I'd start in on the 20 or so of those minis I've got...

[Demerzel]

[cybertrucker]

Simple fix have the devs create a Shadowrun minitures game kind of like Necropolis or something. We could have Urban BRAWL. Could write all kinds of factions to be based with. Have several different major gang factions. Lone Star security forces, Mafia/yakuza hit squads. Shadowrun Teams... All point based,

Would be pretty cool. I bet if they did it right it could even have a good following 8). It would also give us minitures to use in our RP sessions, i know i would play.

[FrankTrollman]

Like Necromunda. I remember the articles on Necromunda I used to write. They got translated into French for some reason.

-Frank

[Demerzel]

That is brilliant, Urban Brawl mini game.... Even if they made it as a Free PDF available to support the minis. ooh, the ideas are percolating... It would have to be smoother playing than DMZ was... Maybe terrain based...

Someone call Adam. :)

[FrankTrollman]

The key to any tactical game is smoothness of play. Movement, attacks, special abilities should all follow naturally one from another and be easy to use. Terrain similary should be easy to adjudicate and intuitive to understand. Looking up charts during the resolution of an individual action is bad because you have tp move around 6-20 guys every round.

So for example, I don't want to keep track of bullets or Essence. I would like in fact to avoid keeping track of damage in any point-based way. Possibly just have moderately injured, seriously injured, and out of action (maybe just injured and out of action, not sure).

important design notes:

• There should only be one way to be tough. Yes, being big, being healthy, being heavily armored are all different, but at the level of a tactical game I seriously don't give a shit.
• Guns have only two states: working and not working. I don't want to clear jams or keep track of how many explosive rounds I have left. Honestly, high professional rating characters should simply never run out of ammo during the course of a throw down. Cheap gangers can make a roll to see if they have run out of ammo or broke their weapon or whatever when they attack.
• Characters don't get multiple IPs. Sorry, it's both awesome and iconic, but Street Sam will have to deal with just doing a lot more damage and moving farther because that's easy.
• Buff Spells and Foci Don't Exist. Character equipment which affects their character in a meta fashion will be abstracted out at all levels of play. Players don't have to (or get to) spend actions moving points around on their sheets. It's a tactical game, not an accounting game.

-Frank

[Critias]

Miniature wargames are very expensive to get started. I got involved in one that just launched the other day at Origins (Spinespur), and even to guys that were experienced wargames, several of whom that had worked with wargaming companies before, the start-up costs were surprising. Even if all you're after are good sculpts, the costs required to start up that sort of business are quite high (you need to hire a sculptor which can run several thousand, get the greens developed, resized to 40mm or whatever, hold onto originals, get the sculpts themselves made, and THEN production on individual minis can start).

A Shadowrun miniatures game would be cool, don't get me wrong. But they take a lot of work and money. A "miniatures game on the side" just isn't a viable business plan. If you can hardly support an RPG on the money and RPG makes, you certainly can't support a miniatures game from the money an RPG makes.

As far as nitpicky details about how gameplay should work -- well, that all varies. Mosty it depends on the scale of a game you want. 8-10 models per side (like Spinespur)? Anywhere from 15-75 in an average game (like Warmachine) depending on how character-centric you want to be? Or more like Warhammer or 40k, where you can still be somewhat points-heavy on a few chosen models, but can field (literally) 200-300 models per side, easily, in even an average point game?

The smaller the game, the closer to a little gang brawl or skirmish, the more rules-intensive they can afford to be. Custom ammo options, rules for jammed weapons or changing magazines, rules for bleeding/overdamage after an initial wound is taken, multiple actions being taken by a single model... that's all stuff that can be really cool and fun for 5-6 guys, but NOT if you're keeping track of twenty models.

You would really want guys who are RPGers and wargamers to work together on this sort of project. Not some RPGers and some wargamers, but folks who do a lot of both, if you want a playable product that will still be true to a (streamlined) version of the game world in question.

[Zolhex]

[Demerzel]