Oh Please God help me!, help with Shadowrun Options

[DrPeteCastle]

I love the shadowrun universe I played and beat the Super Nintendo Shadowrun game and have read 4 of the new novels and the old Nosferatu novel. I wanted to play the roleplaying game this universe is centered on so I bought 4th edition on ebay and some dice. I wanted to play the game with my cousins who also have never played anything like a pen and paper game. I have never played or watched a role playing game before or much lessed play shadowrun pnp game before so I was clueless on the concept. I thought the 4th edition would help me some on how to play the game and how the roleplaying game concept works. I kinda understand that the gamemaster makes an adventure, controls the setting, nps, and the rules while the other people control their characters actions. The rulebook actually says "To learn more, find others who already play Shadowrun, and learn from them." Frag that drek. I don't know anybody who plays Shadowrun much less any roleplaying game (even dungeons and dragons). I have read a little more than halfway through 4th edition (right before the magic section). I feel absolutely overwhelmed, there is so much freaking detail, back story, and rules I dont even wanna know whats in the magic and matrix sections coming up. I feel like have to build a rocketship into outerspace using a Spanish instruction manual. This game sounds so freaking awesome but I feel like I dont know enough to gamemaster a game even with the "on the run" adventure book that i orded on ebay thats coming in(Im guessing that is going to be a vague outline).
Please help me! What should I do to get a better concept? Are there any videos of people playing on a website? Oh God please!. thanks!

[Marwynn]

Well I ain't god and I don't think he sent me but there are ways to learn the game.

First thing is to nail down the character movement system. How they operate in a space, running and such. This gives you a way to visualize the "game space".

Second, re-re-re-read the character creation parts of the book so you have an idea of the stats and what they're for. Do the same for the skills section.

Third, kill something. Read the combat rules section. Use two of the premades, or even just one of the premades twice, and have them move and fire at each other.

Have fun with it with your fellow players. My first few SR games were with the Street Samura premade character in SR4 killing and dying to the other players.

Do the same for the Matrix, then the Astral parts.

I'm a newbie at this myself, I've only dipped into the Matrix a few times and Astral space is a whole new pond for me to dip in. But I've played enough RPGs to have developed a bit of a tutorial routine when familiarizing myself with a new system.


And yes, there is LOTS to read.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

[Buster]

The Shadowrun universe is huge, so start in manageable chunks. If you're really into magi, like I am, just start with making a simple sorcerer and test play your sorcerer versus a pregenerated gunman (you play both characters). That'll teach you basic magic rules and basic gunfighting rules. Once you feel good about that, then build on that by maybe learning about spirits or astral combat or cyberware. I'm still learning about spirits and conjuring myself. I still don't know much about hacking or the matrix, so I'm reading all the forum posts about how to optimize a hacker or technomancer and starting from there.

[Particle_Beam]

Do not panic. It doesn't have to be perfect the first time, all it has to be is somehow fun.

Make little test-games for the various game mechanics, to see how your group understands them and where there is difference.
The archetypes in the basic rulebook are also good for exactly this situation. Let your group use them in the first place. Then, if you think that you have now a good enough grasp of it and the rules, go back to character creation and let the players construct custom characters.

[Strobe]

Something you can do to get a basic idea of how a role playing game plays out would be to look up your local gaming store. Chances are there is one within a reasonable distance. See if they run games (probably D&D) and find out if you can watch/sit in/join for a game or two just to get a feel of what it is like around the table.

From what you have written you have started with the story which is a good way to go. Better to have a feel for the game and then let the rules fall into place as you plan in my opinion.

Anyway, good luck with your game.

-Strobe

[knasser]

Oh wow! Welcome to the game, Believe me, this could be enormous fun for you. I wrote a small introductory adventure for Shadowrun which is here and it covers what to role in particular circumstances and is a reasonably low-risk beginner's run. There are also some other Shadowrun materials for new GMs on my site (the first link in my sig below). Help yourself.

And regarding the basic concepts of role playing games... As GM, your job is the following:

1. Sit on one side of the table with a screen so that the players opposite can't see your maps or your sheets covered in character statistics.

2. Describe the world fairly to the players so that the only thing they control (their characters) can act sensibly.

3. Play the part of all allies, villains and random people, using sinister accents and swooning damsel voices as appropriate.

4. Be fair to all players but stick to your guns. If they attack the dragon, it's not your fault if they die.

5. Come up with exciting plots and events. Pick a favourite movie or two, and steal shamelessly.

6. Occasionally roll dice behind your screen for no reason and chuckle. This drives players nuts. ;)

Hope this helps. Keep posting questions here on Dumpshock. We're all very happy to help.

-Khadim.

EDIT: On the Run is a good introductory adventure. It has a lot of good advice for running a shadowrun game. It does have a weakness that there are couple of places where it can go completely off the rails if the PCs don't do what you expect, but it's well worth getting.

[Talia Invierno]

Okay -- won't be the most popular suggestion here, but when I read about videos of people roleplaying, I realised the level of inexperience here. There is one thing that White Wolf (another roleplaying universe) does do well: and that's the comics at the back of the book. On one side the comic shows the verbal exchanges over the game table. One the other side, the comic shows what is happening in the game world. You'll see it at the very back of books such as Mage: The Awakening.

I mention this only by way of absolutely baseline introduction.

Really, it's impossible to get a feel for roleplaying on your own -- so it really is a good idea to get at least one other person involved, a friend of around your own age, to learn the structure with you.

One of you will be the GM. The GM is the one who imagines the scenario. As a very basic example, if a combat happens in a room, the GM is the one who has decided beforehand how big the room is, does it have furniture or other obstructions, what is its lighting, etc. The GM is also the one who decides what other non-player character (NPC) or creature lurks in the room, what they have with them, and what they will do when the player character enters the room.

The other of you will be creating a player character, or PC. This is the character who interacts with the world the GM has created.

The two of you will be sitting down at a table. You'll want some clear space in front of each of you: you'll be using this for reference papers, character sheets, and dice rolling. The GM may want a "GM screen" to hide some of his papers, because they are not supposed to be known by the player.

Thereafter, the player describes the actions of their PC, and the GM describes how the environment and NPCs he has created respond to those actions.

That's the essential roleplaying image. More later.

[fistandantilus4....]

Couple of suggestions could be to try running a premade adventure such as On the Run which walks you through a lot of the game sections. You could also try getting in to some of the online games hosted here in the Welcome to the Shadows area. Just look for games that say "Recruiting".

[sunnyside]

Ok to understand yourself as the GM, sort of think of yourself as the NES/Genesis, only sexier and smarter.

The trick is that you have a verbal interface generally instead of a graphical one. So, if I remember the NES game right you'd start off describing them waking up on a table and the two doctors freaking out.

Instead of just clicking all over the screen a player would search the room (probably roll perception skill + intuition). If they roll well you tell them their character finds whatever useful stuff might be in there.

When they get into a fight and start punching some orcs you'd roll unarmed combat+agility vs the orcs unarmed combat + reaction and so on.

The big big difference between you and a videogame is that the players are free to do whatever they want, within reason. For example when dropped off in that dump a player character might just climb out over the rubble instead of all the stuff you otherwise have to do.

Since you're really really green I would actually might want to try having your players all start off as simple characters. Maybe give them a little cyber, but just a little. Maybe limit their initial money for gear and such to 10K. (so maybe only 1 or two players will even have a fake SIN).

If they eventually want to be a magic user give them the magician/adept quality, but don't let them spend any more points on magic. And maybe don't let them have any spells right at the start.

Characters can still easily spend that 400BP on stats, edge, races, qualities, skills, and contacts.

So when you start off things will be simple. Have them play gangers in the barrens who think they're tough enough to make it in the bigtime. Build up to magic and the matrix.

[bibliophile20]

[tisoz]

Welcome to the Shadows shows one way people play Shadowrun online. Find the In Character thread and its accompanying Out Of Character thread. It gives an idea of the interaction that goes on between player and GM.

Knights of the Dinner Table, KoDT, is a gaming magazine, but about half of it are comics which show gamers, usually sitting around a table. It might not be a video, and it is played to elicit laughs, but what makes it funny is it too true. I would recommend buying the earliest Bundle of Trouble available if you are interested in checking it out. The Bundle of Trouble is a good value as they combine several of the old issues with a few extra unpublished perks.

I was in the same situation as you. I started by reading a section of the rules, then playing a couple of made characters against each other to see how things played out. It helps demonstrate how the rules work. When I was comfortable I understood how a thing like melee combat worked, I then started experimenting with Ranged Combat, then added Sorcery, etc. until I was comfortable with understanding how things worked - even if I needed to frequently refer to the book. Repetition will instill familiarity and book references will get further and further apart. Even now, close to 2 decades of playing, I still refer to the rules now and then.

[sunnyside]

Actually It wasn't meant to help others but maybe

http://www.neoaxial.com/cgi-bin/yabb2//YaB...?num=1167166474

would be useful. It's an online game with me and a guy who really didn't know anything about shadowrun. Though he had roleplayed before. So lots of explanations are in there, and die rolls are right in the thread.

If you are careful you may also note that, yes, there are errors. You will also notice that the world didn't end when I made them.


I suppose if you wanted you could do something like that with me. Either with me as the player or you as the player (or alternating?). Though online stuff like that is relatively slow, so maybe just jumping in with your players would be better.

You could try whatever confuses you. Or I guess if you'd like you could try just running a sample something and ask if it was done right.

Actually you could do that here. People would quickly check it to see if it was done right.

[DrPeteCastle]

Thanks you guys are awesome, i appreciate all of your responses. Im starting to realize how much detail you have to put into making an adventure and the like. As a gamemaster, one of my duties is to basically fight/roll against the pc's with my npc's.(?) The character i attempted to make was a martial art adept that specialized in unarmed melee but that almost seems stupid because wouldnt most my confrontations just be them blowing me away with firearms? one more question/correction in combat- lets say i walk up to an aware unalarmed guard and want to punch him in the face. do i just roll unarmed+agility against his reaction+body or would I rule an initiation rolls first. im confused on that concept. (sorry the rule book confused me there)

[Jaid]

that sort of situation is where surprise rules come into play.

[Talia Invierno]

[tisoz]

[Talia Invierno]

And here I was, surprised that over half an hour had passed without anyone else having posted something detailed. Three minutes on an on-line board is practically simultaneous (very much unlike SR combat situations, of course ;) ).

[tisoz]

I'm not a stalker. Really.




















No, really.

I found it humorous we both also commented about describing the surroundings.

But really, I'm not stalking.

[DrPeteCastle]

lol ,tisoz. thanks, ill do some rereading and do some mini combat tonight. I swear the last question of the night. i just saw one dungeons and dragons video and the pc's where acting out their charater like a broadway show. i can see this to an extent but they were scarily into it. is this necessary or could they merely be like "my charater attempts..." how do u guys act out ur characters of pcs and gm's?

[Talia Invierno]

We were full of questions when we first started too, DrPeteCastle. In fact, we still are -- or else these boards wouldn't exist!

[tisoz]

The fully acting out may have been Live Action Roleplaying. Usually, we stay seated, declare what our PC is doing, sometimes in first person as , "I am aiming and shooting the biggest one." Sometimes gestures are involved, like in the example pretending to draw a weapon, sighting your fist with extended forefinger and twitching thumb.

Really, it depends on the extent the group wants to play things out. Sometimes it is no more than, "My character uses his Automatic weapons skill." That is usually regarded as limited roleplaying though.

[edit] *shakes fist* Damn, you! Take longer to think; I'm an old man and getting feebleminded. *gets up to visit bathroom due to constant urination problem* [/edit] :)
[additional edit] I see now. I took much more time due to my prettily formatting my reply and remembering the term LARPing. And not being totally familiar with SR4, had to make sure Automatic weapons was the new skill. But again, I am confounded by the similarity in the answer. Are you shooting thoughts at me? *rummages around looking for tinfoil hat* [/additional edit]

This post has been edited by tisoz: Jul 10 2007, 04:22 AM

[DrPeteCastle]

Thanks Talia, that answer really relieves me those guys were crazy definitely group D, i think would fit in with group b. :talker:

[MaxHunter]

First of all, welcome to the game! Don't panic, don't worry too much either, you are surely going to have lots of fun. ...And you are certainly allowed to make lots of mistakes, there is nothing similar to a RPG police, so feel free to improvise.

About acting character and all, it depends on what you and your group of players enjoy best. As in everything else with RPGs, there is no "proper" way to do it, it's a game, after all. So, if you and your people feel like saying "my ork does this and that" or if you rather act it out it will be fine as long as you are having fun.

In my gaming group it comes out as a mix of a little acting and some narrative. I am the Gm and I do like to act a little, do some voices and stuff, but not too much. I sometimes ask the players to describe their attempted actions in a more detailed form to clarify and to help the rest imagine the situation. So not something like "I shoot the guard" and more something like "I take cover with the wall and point my gun at the nearest guard, aiming to the head, two shots." or so.

It is important to always start any encounter with a nice clear description of everything you think the characters need to know. I also find useful to have players describe their characters, what they look like and all every time they meet before a run, in order to help everybody picture the situation. But that's just me.

I would suggest to start with a simple scenario, like a bar fight, or a gang fight to get a hold on the combat rules.

Cheers, and welcome to the shadows!

Max

[MaxHunter]

I am getting too slow for this, kids! Talia, tisoz: You BOTH beat me to the post. That's my fault for being so longwinded. Kudos for speed.

I must say I agree with both and consider myself and my group something like a C- group.

Cheers,

Max