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 Self expression Sota |
 Jul 28 2007, 01:27 AM
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#26
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Immoral Elf  Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486  |
That's ... just ... funny! :rotfl: |
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Jul 30 2007, 03:59 PM
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#27
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 976 Joined: 16-September 04 From: Near my daughters, Lansdale PA Member No.: 6,668 |
You are sadly confusing myths and street handles with facts. I am human. Orks are not. Humans and orks are clearly different species. |
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Jul 30 2007, 08:30 PM
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#28
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,028 Joined: 9-November 02 From: The Republic of Vermont Member No.: 3,581 |
Actually, the fact that such mixing is possible, and results in fertile offspring, means that orks and humans are, by definition, the same species. Also, while studies indicate that orks and trolls are, on average, less intelligent than humans, there's no evidence supporting the assertion that orks are more easily influenced than humans. Some studies conducted prior to 2060 do indicate that trolls are more easily influenced than humans, but, strangely, this is not evident in post-2060 studies, even using the same methodology. |
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Jul 30 2007, 08:37 PM
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#29
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,898 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Actually, studies from 2061, 2063, and 2064 all show quite clearly that Trolls are significantly more susceptible to influence than humans.
~J |
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Jul 30 2007, 10:22 PM
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#30
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
that's inaccurate. trolls (and orks) are less likely to spot logical flaws in concepts they are presented with. therefore, it's easier to fool an ork or a troll into doing what you want them to do. more direct methods of influence, such as threats, work no better or worse on trolls than on humans.
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Jul 31 2007, 01:28 AM
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#31
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
As the years go by, the average IQ, EQ, and social aptitude scores for orks and trolls have been steadily increasing. 2 decades ago it was obvious in the studies that orks and trolls had diminished capabilities. These days the statistics compare favorably with all metatypes, with limitation only apparent at the top end.
Why? Well, the experts theorize a few reasons. First is that the first generations of orcs and trolls Goblinized, rather than being born that way. The traumatic nature of goblinization often lead to Brain damage, PTSD and psychosis. The second generation of gobliniods were usually raised by this first generation, who had notably poor parenting skills. Also, a hostile society (and diminished mental health) would push these groups to the lower ends of society, the edges, where education is neither readily available nor held in high regard. Most statistics you see for gobliniod mental ability do not normalize across economic class. Economic class has it's own (large) distinct effect on these scores, and to fail to account for it is unscientific. Thus first generation orcs had terrific mental handicaps due to trauma. Second generation orcs had better metnal health but worse education. Both facts lead to significant difficulties performing on the standardized intelligence and social aptitude tests. However, Third generation orcs were born to the comparitively more stable second generation orcs, many to parents who had come to terms with their identity, and so grew up in generally more positive environments. Also, societal prejudice had lessened somewhat, and comparatively more educational opportunities were available. Beginning with these third generation gobliniods, measured disparity between humans and gobliniods began to decrease. This increase in the tested abilities of gobliniods has continued for the last decade. As trends towards normalization of gobliniods continue, some researchers beleive that the difference may disappear altogether. |
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Jul 31 2007, 02:10 AM
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#32
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,577 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gwynedd Valley PA Member No.: 1,221 |
If you could get past your purer than thou prejudice you'd know that Orks are people too. It took me a long time to get accepted at the Big Rhino (the things I do for decent ribs) but once I was accepted as one of the gang and in on many of the jokes it was easy to see that orks are just hard working joes who got handed a lousy card,genetically, but play it well and just want a chance, wehat any normal person wants. |
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Jul 31 2007, 12:40 PM
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#33
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 976 Joined: 16-September 04 From: Near my daughters, Lansdale PA Member No.: 6,668 |
Snow Fox- a lot of corpers like to go slumming too. That doesn't mean they really think those people they mix with when they do so are their equals.
There are always depraved individuals willing to perform unnatural acts. look at earlier forms of beastiality. As for the orks who look to touch human women, they are to be pitied. When was the last time you saw an ork or troll spokesmodel at a car show or high fashion? The media bombard these poor creatures with the idea that human is the desired norm and what they should want. It is like in the last century ,there was a white blond child's toy that was supposed to be the height of beauty. I think it was called 'Barry.' It was so plugged by the media that even little girls who were not white or blond would rather play with her than with dolls that looked like they did. The platonic pimp is making the usual pc argument from the left, to show that 'orks aren't that bad' but the fact that universities have to devote huge amount of time and money to come up with a very few supporting numbers shows my point. There are always a few above average types and these poor souls are grabbed by the liberal left as 'proof' of their ridiculous claims. Instead of being left in their communities where their abilities would make them natural leaders and capable of bettering their fellows, they are dragged into the human world to be shown off as 'proof' of the latest liberal theory in the 21st century equivelant of a side show. Kagetenchi understands the truth of this. |
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Jul 31 2007, 01:28 PM
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#34
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 993 Joined: 5-December 05 From: Crying in the wilderness Member No.: 8,047 |
As a human I can only stand agast at the Humanis point of view. The majority of humans are lack lustre, savage sheep lead by the corporate spin doctors and lacking in indivduality or basic politeness. Humanis supporters are typified by a smug superiority leading to a patronising stance at best and mindless rudeness at worst. There is no excuse for poor manners.
By comparison the majority of orks leading a far more violent existance remember the essence of respect and civilisation, is to be civil. I remember fondly meeting an unruly mob of Humanis yahoos and correcting their etiquette accordingly. Bigotry is such a course face of humanity. |
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Jul 31 2007, 01:32 PM
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#35
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,286 Joined: 24-May 05 From: A 10x10 room with an orc and a treasure chest Member No.: 7,409 |
Last group of orcs I met tried to rob and kill me. Last group of humans I met bought me drinks and partied with me til dawn. There is the difference.
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Jul 31 2007, 01:44 PM
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#36
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 993 Joined: 5-December 05 From: Crying in the wilderness Member No.: 8,047 |
Judge on individual terms not generic racial ones. If humans have a greater intellect why do they refuse to use it?
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Jul 31 2007, 04:32 PM
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#37
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,028 Joined: 9-November 02 From: The Republic of Vermont Member No.: 3,581 |
The difference is, when some guy gets it on with a sheep, you don't end up with lambs. Human-ork matings produce baby orks, who can produce more baby orks. In fact, it doesn't happen much anymore, but human-human matings can produce baby orks. If you go back a few generations, all orks have pure-human ancestry. Biologically, orks are human. Magically-altered humans, but human nonetheless. This applies to the other metatypes as well. We're all interfertile (though there are some, uh, logistical difficulties with certain combinations); therefore, we're all, by definition, the same species.
I don't think it's debatable that widespread discrimination against orks, by media and others, exists. I'm not sure what you're bringing this up in support of; it seems to me that it's a better point in support of the other side.
The vast majority of humans aren't all that bright, either.
Who? |
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Jul 31 2007, 04:56 PM
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#38
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 289 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,625 |
That's a common misconception. Interspecific hybrids (hybrids between different species) are usually sterile, HOWEVER, there are a number of known instances of fertile interspecific hybrids, most commonly occuring in the Bos and Canis genera. |
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Jul 31 2007, 06:12 PM
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#39
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,898 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Oh, certainly. Nevertheless, that doesn't make them human in any meaningful fashion.
It is absolutely debatable. Orks are overrepresented in scholarship grants. Orks are notoriously difficult to fire without a lawsuit resulting. Orks on airplanes aren't subject to the same kind of security and guarding that humans with cyberarms that are weaker than that ork's natural arms are subject to. That's not even getting into Trolls. Orks were discriminated against once, but they've parlayed that into a nice, comfortable advantaged position. Where are the foundations to help underprivileged humans? There are more underprivileged humans than there are underprivileged Orks, but any attempt to found a charity to specifically benefit underprivileged humans gets shouted down with cries of racism. On the other hand, there are no less than twenty Ork-only charities in Seattle alone. Come back to me when a SINless human has a quarter the opportunities available to him that a SINless Ork does, and we can talk about "discrimination against Orks". ~J |
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Jul 31 2007, 06:24 PM
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#40
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
if the interbreeding happens often enough, the offspring will eventually replace both species--which, if you accept the unsupported hypothesis that orks and humans (and elves and trolls) were different species to begin with, is what appears to have happened here. there are no 'pure' metatypes, only humans who express their genetic heritage differently. Daddy's Little Ninja simply happens to have expressed her Tojo Hideki genes, rather than her Neil the Ork Barbarian genes. that doesn't make her any more purely human than the orks she pities, the same way Menel's purple-flowered peas were not necessarily more purely purple than his white-flowered peas. |
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Jul 31 2007, 06:40 PM
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#41
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 976 Joined: 16-September 04 From: Near my daughters, Lansdale PA Member No.: 6,668 |
A very good point. and it shows the support of the liberal left who like to wave flags rather than really achieve things.
I do not support Humanis ideals that call for blood shed against changed ones. I believe they have rights and a place and should be pitied for their disadvantages but they should not be elevated to a degree that they are incapable of holding on their own. For those who point out human/ork breeding. you are proving my ponit that orks are not at the same level as humans. Such horrors usually result in ork children. Orks breeding with orks do not breed humans. this is like the way that off spring of people genetically damaged by radiation pass that damage to their children. |
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Jul 31 2007, 07:07 PM
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#42
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
which is the entire point. everybody has that 'damage'. there is no such thing as interspecies breeding among humans and metahumans because everyone has metagenes. unexpressed, in the case of most humans, but they're there. you might walk through a manaline tomorrow and sprout tusks. |
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Jul 31 2007, 09:21 PM
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#43
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Not often no, but the line in discussion of giants in Companion states that giants have an above average rate of having regular human children (25% of daughters) as metahumans go, it doesn't state that giants are the only metatype to have regular human offspring. |
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Aug 1 2007, 04:58 AM
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#44
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
When I read in the Companion that I had an inspiration of a character who's background is one where he's a human born to troll (or ork) parents, and all his sibilings are troll (or orks). I was curious how his life would be growing up in such an environment, the jealousy by his siblings that he was born 'normal' and the taunts and such from the other kid trolls (or orks). Then there's the other part, of where he's also family and what do they do. Will he as he grows up attempt to hide where he came from? Or does he do the opposite. Anyway, just some thoughts that came to me when I read that part for the giants and interpreting it that giants have a higher percentage, but are not the only metas with this chance of reversion back to humans. |
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Aug 1 2007, 03:56 PM
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#45
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 289 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,625 |
I wasn't saying metahumans are different species, I was only pointing out that the idea that interbreeding = same species, is false. The 'science' people are presenting is wrong. Speaking of, interbreeding wouldn't just have to occur 'often enough' for the species to be replaced, it would need to occur to the exclusion of all else, and even then there's a chance the original species could re-occur. And there's very little point mentioning Mendelian Inheritance when the races violate Mendel's Laws. There's even less point if your ignoring that you can very much have people with 'pure' Mendelian traits (and in the case of recessive traits, it's neccesary) or that the dominance/reccesiveness of a particular allele is fixed. The metaraces are magical, and trying to introduce science into this argument is pointless. I think the fact that the metas all came from humans is proof enough that they are also human. |
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Aug 1 2007, 04:00 PM
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#46
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
...or that they're post-human. |
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Aug 1 2007, 04:10 PM
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#47
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 289 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,625 |
Well not really 'post' in the case of orcs and trolls with goblinisation.
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Aug 1 2007, 04:14 PM
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#48
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
I suppose the goblinized would be the trans-humans, in this example. |
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Aug 1 2007, 04:27 PM
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#49
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Orks and Humans are different. Orks are superior to humans in every way. The extinction of Human-kind within the next century is inevitable, as is the rise of Ork-kind as the dominant species on the planet. This is how it is and how it should be. Inferiors should not lament their end, but embrace it.
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Aug 1 2007, 04:39 PM
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#50
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 289 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,625 |
"You don't get it, Steve. That doesn't matter." |
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