SIN Creation Possible?, Hacker wants to program SINs if possible Options

[Syonyde]

I was wondering if it is feasible to create SINs, or what a SIN is exactly. Is a SIN a hardware type thing, like an RFID chip, or is it like a hash code encrypted and uploaded to a government database? If it is either, I would like to attempt to do it. What better thill would there be hacking if you could hack around in Government computers. I know it shouldn't be an easy task, but is it possible you think. GM views would be really nice.

[Crusher Bob]

As written, a SIN is something closer to:

Your SSN, all of your tax returns, your drivers license, your school records, etc.

It's the depth duplication of the data that help make the SIN legit, that's why forging one that passes all sorts of checks is hard. Sure you might be able to hack the SSN # in, but did you remember to hack the records of the elementary school?

[Wakshaani]

Bob's got it basicly on track.

WHen it starts, your SIN is, essentialy, your social security number. It'll mention where you were born, who your parents were, your race, blood type, and your birth weight.

As time goes on, it'll be updated with medical records ... what color are your eyes and hair? How big were you at age 4? At 10? At 16? How about during your last medical visit? Wheere did you go to school? Did you have any accidents? While in school, were you in any clubs? Who else was in those clubs? Are you a liscensed driver? How about voter? Do you donate blood? Are you listed as an organ donor? Have you had any criminal offenses? Have you ever gotten a passport? WHere have you worked and for how long? Do you have any insurance?

All this and more. It's a gradual record of where you've been and what you've done. To verify that you're real, this history can be traced back then cross-referenced. Sure, your SIN *claims* that you went to school at Essex for Tots, and the record supports that, but there was a Charlie Runnels in that class and if we look at *his* backstory, will it include mention of you being there?

And so on.

There's *gobs* of data out there about you, the SIN is the key that opens all those vaults.

[Synner667]

And that is why it's so much easier to collect the ones you find on shadow ops, and tweak them for your own use.

The database information is all there, and legit..
..So just change the database query - as it were.


Just my thruppence..

[Lindt]

And your all missing something quite important. Its also your credit record. What you have bought, when, where, from whom, your buying patterns.

But yes, thats why fake SINs are as much money as they are. There is a LOT of info to fabricate.

[kigmatzomat]

A decent SIN is the result of multiple hacks, changing remote databases to reflect the info you want. The better the SIN rating, the more complete (and up to date) the data record. Think of your credit report. it shows the credit cards you have/had, payment records, amount of use, your employer(s), duration of employment, addresses for the past 5-10 years, etc. To completely fake that would require a significant amount of effort, hence the cost.

We have scaled the SINs.

A rating 1 is will handle non-authenticated transactions, essentially providing little more than a name attached to a bank account. This is like buying lunch at McDonalds using a credit card; they don't require a signature because the exchange is sufficiently small. Rating 1 SINs are pretty much useless for anything other than getting into a bar, rated R movie, or buying stuff costing 50Y or less.

Rating 2 is sufficient for opening gridlink accounts, getting an apartment in the bad part of town or other basic services. The bulk of R2 SINs are criminal SINs. The upside is that no one expects you to amount to much. The downside is that the police will hotlist that SIN if something bad happens next door.

Rating 3 is the threshold for getting on an airplane or accessing public areas with significant security. Probably not good enough to pass customs so keep it domestic. You can vote in local elections but probably don't want to try the nationals.

Rating 4 is the minimum SIN that can have a weapon license. It will survive against most cursory scans but will fall apart under the scrutiny of actually using the weapon. You can probably visit friendly countries (e.g. Bahamas, CAS/UCAS) but no where that will take a hard look at your ID.

Rating 5 is the lowest ranking that has any real chance of passing felony-level police attention. It probably won't survive if you are taken to the station but if you are merely questioned at the site you will probably not be twigged.

rating 6 might actually pass at a courthouse. Not guaranteed but it's been known to happen. Of course, unless you get off scott free the SIN is now tagged as a criminal SIN.


Smart runners use an R6 SIN as their primary identity.

[Backgammon]

To specifically answer your question, I wouldn't let a PC create his own SIN. The books states it takes entire shadow organizations dedicated to that task. I wouldn't let a single PC build one in his basement. To be generous, though, I might let him create Rating 1 SINs, Rating 2 is he's reeeeally dedicated. I'd make the test insane. As you posted here and not SR4, I'm going to assume you're playing SR3, so in those terms, I'd set the TN to Rating * 6 or even Rating * 10. I really wouldn't let PCs create SINs willy nilly

[eidolon]

Personally, I agree with Backgammon on this one. It's not something I allow PCs to do in my games.

[mfb]

for SR3, there are rules on pg 125-126 of the Sprawl Survival Guide for creating false identities.

[eidolon]

I re-read those. Don't like them. They get close to how hard it should be fluff-wise, with all the talk about it being a "long process" and that the character needs to have a "bunch of contacts" etc., but then it boils down to a fairly easy test and a paltry amount of money. By the time a team has a few K under their belt, you could have a decker cranking out IDs and selling them at the prices listed in the BBB. Ford Americar theft ring all over again.

[Syonyde]

Sorry, this is in the wrong forum. My bad guys.

Instead, I have a better idea that may be worthwhile. Maybe my hacker could get in contact with an underground group of people that create sins, and after so many months or so, I could get a chance to buy them for teammates after so many different Extended tests that could take awhile.

I admit working solo on a SIN is unreasonable, but could it happen with an underground group?

On a side note, does it seem reasonable to spend 24 hours programing to get the effect of 3 days worth of work done for creating programs?

[Fortune]

Those Underground Groups are exactly where fake SINs come from, and probably the most common people to acquire them from.

[Syonyde]

[Lindt]

THe programming thing is a matter of deminishing returns. Im a living example, as I have just spent the last 18 hours straight finishing my portfolio. I think I got 2 hours worth of work done in the last 4 because I was just loosing my mind. In another 6 Im going to be getting that much done in 4, and Im sure by sunday Im going to be getting officially bupkiss done because it will have been stupid o clock for a day and a half.


So what your reallyasking is "Hey, if we do a run for them, could they pay us in good fake SINs?" If thats the case Im fairly sure the answer is a resounding yes.

[Syonyde]

[Thomas]

One of my characters worked on improving SINs as part of his downtime routine.

To pay off a “favor� he had to use 5 different credsticks – each its own identity – in 5 different parts of the ‘plex, to simulate the buying patterns of 5 different people.
It basically sucked for the character, he had to pay in most of the money to cover the purchases, and, although he had three safehouses; what are ya gonna do with 5 weeks worth of groceries every week? (his solution, sell it to the SINless) But even that was a losing deal most of the time – the SINless are fraggin POOR!

Eh, “never deal with a Dragon�, or the <mumble mumble mumble>, or an evil GM.

Note: that was SR3, not sure it would work in SR4.