Monofilament sword Options

[Hyde]

Why does it only give a -1 AP where a monofilament whip gives a -4? What's the reason?

[Ddays]

It can't cut as deep cause you have the nonfilament part?

[Whipstitch]

Well, first off, a disclaimer: Super fine lightweight monofilament whips make no freakin' sense from a physics standpoint whatsoever. So I realize the distinction I'm about to point out amounts to practically nothing, since in the end the sword would be a much better idea for all practical purposes. At least it has some actual mass behind it.

That said, in the RAW, the broadsword has a "superfine monofilament". Note that a monofilament only means that it's made out of a single fiber; thickness and other properties could vary significantly. For example, fishing line is often described as being monofilament. By contrast, the monofilament whip is described as being made from nanowire. Which, frankly, doesn't make a lick of sense, but this is shadowrun so monowhips have to be awesome and way sharper than swords in order to preserve William Gibson's honor. :cyber:

[FrankTrollman]

I think the idea is that people are supposed to use Katanas occasionally. The monosword only does as much damage as the katana, so from a raw numbers standpoint it's no big deal. It's much smaller than the katana is, using only one hand instead of 2. So to that extent it is superior to the archaic blade - but not enough to make every munchkin go on about how katanas are "teh useless".

That being said, it's kind of a pain in the ass how very hard it is to take enemies out in a reasonable amount of time with melee attacks of any kind.

-Frank

[Whipstitch]

Tell me about it. My standard "melee" strategy is to knock the guy down with a shock glove and then shoot the bastard.

[Kyoto Kid]

...not a bad technique.

As a variant, I could have KK load one Warhawk with S&S and the other with EXEX. Shock them on their butts then shoot them dead. Heck with a Warhawk even Gel rounds are pretty effective for bowling people over.

I am beginning to re-asess the need for the Katana or any sword for that matter (even if it is a WF). The only time I can see using a reach melee weapon is to keep certain foes, like Ghouls out of reach of you. Yes it is stylish, but with the old counterattack rule gone, melee has lost a bit of it's attractiveness. And besides, bullets and even flechettes tend to keep ghouls out of reach just as well.

Since she is on "forced sabbatical" (the campaign she was in folded) looks like it may be a good time to rework her as the Fists and Guns of fury Adept. Might even get her a Shock Glove too just for fun, or better yet: Elemental Effect - Electricity (always there & never have to recharge).

[hyzmarca]

I'm just waiting for dikote to come back.

[Fortune]

[Naysayer]

The monowhip has (or used to have) this small counterwight thingie at the end of the monowire, so you could actually swing it. I guess the damage is supposed to stem from getting caught in the tightened string...
Whatever. Monowhips don't make sense. Never did. But if you don't have at least one ganger slicing up his friends accidently per campaign, the OldSkool police will come and revoke your gaming license...

As for the sword, the old street-samurai catalogue, where the baby made its debut, had a shadowtalk entry that basically said that the sword is just one big PR-hoax. The poster said something like "So what? My shoelaces are made from monofilament, you don't see me cutting people in half with them".

And yeah, the old counterattack rule is missed. It made it easier to visualise SR melee as a series of attacks and counters. Now, it feels even more static...
Ach

[Wakshaani]

[MadDogMaddux]

I've only ever played 4.0. Explain how the counter attack rules worked, if you please?

[Naysayer]

If I'm not mistaken, you rolled melee as an oposed test, with both attaacker and defender rolling their combat skill plus allocated combat-pool dice.
Whoever rolled more successes (that is, beat the target number) hit, damage was done and the lesson that going into melee against an angry troll bouncer with your katana and an armed combat of 3 is a very bad idea indeed was bitterly learned...

[MadDogMaddux]

Almost identical to the MW3rd Ed. melee rules. I daresay, I really like them, because it allows for your SKILL to give you defense, and you can hurt the other guy while defending....

[Naysayer]

MW?
Is that MechWarrior?

[MadDogMaddux]

Yes. Now know as the Classic Battletech RPG. :twirl:

[odinson]

[mfb]

if it's so easily stopped by armor, then the whip should actually have a lower damage rating. something that has a hard time getting through armor is going to be stopped cold by bone, which means that the worst such a weapon could do is give you lacerations. it's not going to kill you unless you get hit with it so many times that you bleed out--no way you'll hit any vital organs; the best you can hope for is maybe an artery.

[Jaid]

it could tear off chunks of skin, though... depending where it hits, that could be pretty bad...

[Whipstitch]

Oh, I realize wire and stamped metal can be incredibly sharp. That's not the issue. I just think a monofilament whip would be wildly impractical due to its overall lack of mass. It'd be like trying to kill a man with the world's deadliest fishing line. You'd have to wield it more like a flail than anything else. Get the weighted end spinning and try to make sure the other guy gets in its way. Anyway, I'm perfectly fine with monowhips being in the game, since I love the concept and they are so wonderfully cyberpunk. But I do believe that trying to rationalize how powerful they are in relation to other weapons is mostly an excercise in futility. I mean, really now, the monowhip outdamages anything short of the panther cannon or elephant rifle.

[mfb]

sure, it'd hurt, but it'd still be a lot harder to do real damage with it than it would be to do real damage with, say, a knife or a sword. the whole reason a monowhip is supposed to be so lethal is that it's supposed to be able to penetrate almost anything. if you decide it can no longer penetrate almost anything, then the monowhip loses most of its ability to do damage.

[hobgoblin]

I guess that if it managed to slip between two ribs it could cut a lung. And dont underestimate the damage a bad abdomen wound can do. Sr do not have bleeding rules so i guess that the damage done by the whip incorporate that. Oh and the whip can in theory cut in all directions just as long as there is a force pulling on it.

As for the counterattack rules, they had one flaw. A unwired old fu master could win against a wired sammie any day, without going on the offensive...

[Jaid]

[Whipstitch]

Heh. Screw the defiance ex-shocker. A burst of stick 'n' shock from the lowly Steyr TMP or the Yamaha Sakura Fubuki is where it's at. Technically, the rules say that stick and shock just replaces the base damage code. Says nothing about ignoring burst modifiers... Another personal favorite is a pair of Streetline specials loaded with good ol' sticky, in case I feel like being extra sneaky.

As for the troll bow, I prefer to pretend that that particular build doesn't exist. Especially since there's technically nothing stopping them from lacing the arrows with some (wildly unnecessary) narcoject either.

[mfb]

yeah, but to get to a lung, you'd have to get around the guy's arms andget a luckyish shot between some ribs. and there can't be much deflection--pretty much gotta be a straight sidearm swing, and it can pretty much only come in from the side (ie, he's facing towards or away from you when you attack, not standing sideways to you). you can't even do a whip-crack thing to lick the tip across him, because the tip of a monowhip is a heavy sinker--you'd just bruise him. if it's a really long monowhip, you could maybe loop it around him and pull--that'd suck pretty bad, but i'm not convinced it'd be more likely to stop someone than a knife in the heart.

actually... how do most people imagine attacking with a monowhip works? i mean, the classic image is Johnny Mnemonic, where the guy just kinda waves around some sparklies and people fall apart. the butler dude from Hellsing would be another example. to be honest, i kinda think that sort of monowhippery would be best mechanically described as an area attack. it's not precise, there's no finesse per se--you wave your sparklies, and everybody in front of you has to dodge/soak. glitch, and you get caught in the effect.

[hobgoblin]

question: how noisy is the defiance compared to a steyr or fubuki doing burst?