Question bout them SINners, could affect my game Options

[Starmage21]

One of my PCs has the SINner flaw(an Ares SIN no less), and wants to have a firearm registered to that SIN as a legally owned gun(Ares Predator). I am inclined to let him do it, but I wanted to make sure of the legal repercussions if he should choose to use said firearm in the wrong fashion(the usual shadowrunner way).

Say forensics picks up a slug fired from his gun. What are the chances that through a check of all registered firearms that the ballistics profile for his gun would be saved somehow so that they didnt need the actual gun anymore for a check? So if he shoots it, bullets are recovered, and Lone Star is at his house the next day.

What sort of processes might 2070 police use to work this?

[TheDrake]

I was just thinking about what kind of process you would have to go through to get a legit firearms permit. I figure that part of the process is taking a ballistics profile of the gun at registration. Of course, you can change the profile of a gun by running a hard object, like a file or nail, down the barrel once or twice.

[eidolon]

I can't remember if it was ever canon, but I do recall the answer to this question boiling down to whether or not manufacturers are required to fingerprint their weapons right off the assembly line.

This would basically mean
- Gun is made.
- Gun is fired for ballistic fingerprinting.
- Records of that batch are fed to law enforcement.
- Runner fires weapon.
- Law enforcement retrieves a slug in good enough shape to check against database.
- Weapon pops up on screen, along with purchase records and ownership information.
- Law enforcement knocks on door.
- Owner goes to jail.

But there are a lot of "iffy" things in that trail. A lot of good arguments/points exist for either take on it.

Like I said, may be canon on it, I can't remember.

Oh, and disclaimer: I'm not a ballistics expert, and have no idea whether ballistic fingerprinting is or isn't all that useful in RL.

[James McMurray]

In my game the chance of being immediately tagged would be 100% if they don't take any precautions.

[coolgrafix]

To have a permission to own and carry a gun TODAY you need no such profiling of your weapon. Indeed, the whole idea is ludicrous since it's trivial to alter the profile post purchase.

With regard to canon, there's nothing about it in SR4. I don't think there was anything about it before, either, but it would be irrelevant since it's not in SR4. The weapons book may change this.

[eidolon]

[kzt]

If he has any clue as to what he's doing, there is no chance. He gets a spare barrel (slagging down the one used on each run) and uses caseless ammo. Or frangible. Even without it, it's unlikely. The assorted so-called "ballistic fingerprinting" stuff doesn't work without a very defined population of weapons, which is why the Maryland State Police asked the state program be ended, as it's a money pit that has solved NO crimes.

The rifling changes as rounds are fired. I've fired thousands of rounds through most of the weapons I've owned, and a stainless steel borebrush would do wonders, I'm sure. And with caseless ammo there is no primer strike/ejector evidence, and a study by California DoJ showed that case matching is really unreliable even if they did have a case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_fingerprinting

[Starmage21]

are the rounds available in Shadowrun come caseless as a standard?

[TheDrake]

[tweak]

I suggest watching the Max Headroom episode "The Blanks" for some ideas. Blanks and SINless are pretty much the same thing, so the story hits on some of your questions.

tweak

[Kingmaker]

Assuming caseless ammo technology has improved from 2007 to 2070, I can't think a reason why a criminal would want traditional ammo.

Of course, on the other hand, if you are really into realism, Seattle's climate would not be the best place for caseless.

The way my GM has played it is if a SINner character takes basic precautions to avoid being IDed on a run, they won't get caught.

[kzt]

As in: "Try not to leave large amounts of your blood and tissues at the scene of a mass murder"?

[Kingmaker]

Well, you clean that up. Or don't get shot.

[apollo124]

Also, just a touch off topic, your Ares SINner may have some corp protection, if Ares decides that it doesn't want to cooperate with the local law on that day. Of course, that may lead to your fellow corp drones knocking on his door 20 minutes later, but you takes your chances. Extradition from a corporate enclave may be a minor technicality or a major stumbling block. Of course, if it does get stopped, you better not get caught out on the town, or the cops may take it real personal.

[Ravor]

Well personally I tend to handle permits rather broadly, for example, a "Concealed Carry" permit works for every gun, but Pig Star is going to be extra jumpy if they know that you are permited to sling mojo or carry firearms.

As for a legal SINner having a permit, I allow it for free, but make sure that the player understands that this means that he is going to looked at extra hard even if he is innocent, and in the Sixth World the corps have every right to persume that you are guilty until proven innocent. (Sure, it may or may not be "legal" for them to do so depending on your citizenship status and where you got caught, but no-one is going to dare to stop them so it might as well be.)

[Starmage21]

[Ravor]

Yeah, our local Highway Porkers aren't nearly as competant it seems, the one time I was pulled over by one, it wasn't until he had me sitting in his passenger seat with him that the dispatcher came in over the radio warning that a concealed carry permit was issued to the driver.

Hells, they had even looked up the wrong name because I didn't even have a permit at that time.

[Caine Hazen]

Add RFID tags to all the bullets being manufactured, and have the gun deposit its ID when fired... keep the player on his toes...

[hyzmarca]

I prefer to think of most of the UCAS and most UCAS-based Mega( Ares especially) as being Shall Issue, rather than May Issue. Getting a carry permit is very easy for anyone with a SIN and no criminal weapon and weapon carry is so common that the police will only ask to see a permit if they want to harass you or if you're carrying something like an assault cannon. This is rather necessary due to the roving bands of highwaymen that are incredibly common in the Sixth World UCAS. You're practically more likely to be accosted by a go-gang when commuting to work than not.

Ballistic fingerprinting is not really an issue.

Other, more totalitarian, regimes have stricter requirements, however.

[Ravor]

Caine Hazen I'm not convinced that a RFID tag would be capable of surviving being fired out of a gun, much less impacting the target.

*Edit*

Although if possible it would be neat to be able to frame someone by hacking your own gun to desposit someone else's ID.

[Ryu]

Buying a registered weapon on a legal non-criminal SIN should be no problem itself under most jurisdiction.

The weapon itself is/should be registered via chip. If you remove said chip, your license gains you nothing. If you don´t, weapon detectors register and remember your gun bein g present. There has better be no unexplained shooting while you are present.

If you are investigated for whatever reason, you better have some kind of license for any weapon found, and should be able to produce any weapon registered in your name on short notice.

[PlatonicPimp]

About RFID tags: In my game I have traditional (read, non-corporate) law regard digital ANYTHING as questionable evidence, and it would be really easy to get it thrown out if your lawyer was halfway decent. Essentially, it's just too damn easy to hack digital evidence, and no protections are foolproof. Hence, an RFID tag would NOT be admissiblle information. However, the police may still get a warrant based on it, and go find some evidence they CAN use.

[coolgrafix]

It makes absolutely no sense to manufacture bullets with individual RFID tags. Of course, for inventory purposes a tag would go on the box the bullets came in. But since tag erasers cost almost nothing, it's trivial (that word again) for criminals or even ordinary citizens to ERASE or EDIT them. Hackers can edit or erase RFID tags of products in grocery stores NOW. There is no value to RFID tags on bullets, hence, it follows that such things wouldn't exist. IMHO.

[Moon-Hawk]

[DireRadiant]

Fundamentally this is a 5 BP negative quality. If you look at other examples, this often translates into a 2 dice penalty on the pool.

Apply this level of penalty to whatever process you are applying to all characters.

If the NPC have a forensics check of some kind, apply an extra 2 dice for that characters test.

All else is fluff and up to you as GM to decide. Have fun.