 Dragon challenge, Taking down a dragon, SR4 style |
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 Jul 20 2007, 04:20 AM
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#226
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895  |
Bahh physical attack. Influence: Dragons Magic + charisma (~18) versus troll's willpower (7 maximum) "I have bribed the mage to kill you instead, though I dislike being bothered and would rather not pay him. Kill him and I will let you walk out of here" Odds are troll goes before mage.... Odds are if troll can kill dragon, mage doesn stand a chance |
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Jul 20 2007, 04:21 AM
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#227
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
Is this build correct?
Darth Sidious, the master of divining: Logic 6 Exception Attribute = Logic 7 Cerebral Booster (3) or Increased Mental Attribute spell (10) = Logic 10 Arcana 6 Aptitude = Arcana 7 Initiate Grade 4 So that's 10 + 7 + 4 = 21 dice all the time without using Edge. That's enough (on average) to get very detailed information on a very specific question. I'm not sure but you might be able to specialize in Arcana in Divining for another 2 dice to the roll. Maybe he's an Adept or Mystic Adept and doesn't want to do anything else with his life except divine the future, so he could have: Improved Ability (Arcana) up to +10 (not sure though, isn't Arcana supposed to be a Technical Active skill because mundanes can do it?) Analytics up to +10 That's 43 dice on the Divining test! (and he can't do anything with all that knowledge about the future...) You could forget learning Divining yourself and have an Ally do it: Force 12 with the Divining power and Arcana 12 would give you 24 divining dice all the time. It'd cost you all your bonus karma though... |
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Jul 20 2007, 04:26 AM
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#228
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
Magic eh? Counterspeller counters it. Done. |
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Jul 20 2007, 04:40 AM
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#229
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
It's hardly a done deal. The dragon could potentially attack with combat, illusion, or manipulation spells, and the counterspeller is only providing a base dice pool of her Counterspelling skill.
So at core, every team member is being subjected to an attack against an Attribute of theirs + the Counterspelling of the team's aegis. It's actually quite a difficult problem as many spells can drop the entire team if they provide even a single net hit. -- The counter speller is capable of some scary stuff - he'll have Shielding, and a mentor spirit, teamwork, and a shielding focus most likely - which is all great. But the dragon is rolling 18 dice, rerolling his failures, and negating the Edge spent by the counter speller. It's actually quite nasty as attacks go, and I am not aware of anything in the game that would be able to write that off easily. So primarily what you're after is setting yourself up to win initiative and spend the edge to really go first. Failing that, be out of LOS for the dragon. Which is really hard in those scenarios. Failing that, you want to have some people miraculously survive the Force 11 Manaball backed up with 10 hits. But it's a long shot. The "draw" situation in neutral territory is actually really hard because the dragon comes equipped with area effecting death magic, a large Edge, and a very very high initiative score. -Frank |
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Jul 20 2007, 04:49 AM
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#230
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
Imrpoved ability wouldnt work: Arcana is a 'awakened skills' per the section title in SM. Same as Active, Technical, Knowledge, etc in main book. Nothing as of yet improves 'awakened skills' (arcana and enchanting). Don't see the -2 dice for sustaing spells. So how is the Increased mental attribute spell (10) being sustained (or lower magic to 9 if bioware) (though that only drops a few points of analytics which I might allow to help (mixxed feelings: is the roll to see how well you deduce the symbols in the vision, or how well you 'do the ceremony' thing to get the vision. Analytics doesnt help you casting a spell even if you are a hermatic mage. As to the ally .. umm. how do you get a force 12 ally. If doing it all at once. That means you have to soak: 2 * hits on 12 dice (summoning) followed immediately by 2* hits on 24 dice (binding). so even if you could somehow beat the ally on the summoning / binding test... the drain is going to kill you. If you start with a weaker then upgrade. Each force point then costs 16 karma. (so so 5 *16 = 80 karma alone to go from force 7 to 12) (and not sure you coud summon a force 7 spirit and then immediately do a force 7 binding and win.. and you still would have to survive 2* hits on 24 dice (average 8) or 16 physical drain! presuming you actually can beat the spirit at the test. |
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Jul 20 2007, 04:55 AM
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#231
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
First: Unless he's a great dragon, he can't negate any edge. So, at best, its the dragon's 18 dice rerolled failures, versus the counterspellers however many dice rerolled failures. So that leaves someone to roll up a counterspeller with all the buffs to it they can.
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Jul 20 2007, 05:04 AM
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#232
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,677 Joined: 5-June 03 Member No.: 4,689 |
As always, backing beyond my earlier mega-post to make sure that there's nothing I missed (I hope!). First off: once we complete this one, I promise to have an up-front battle with a non-great dragon. (I draw the line at a full-out political contexts/open time limit scenario. It's not a run, and that kind of scenario can't help but become one.) Do bear in mind that in an accidental meeting no one will have more than standard defences, even to the point of having to draw weapons you wouldn't naturally have out. (You don't go around on the streets continually carrying your gun in your hand.) In short, you won't be able to be already set up for that one. Nobody debates that any living thing caught out in the open can be killed in a true ambush. That's not the point people with dragon-killing bows are trying to make anyway -- right? But please: no more mention of the stand-up battle until we finish this one. As a general note: I'll remind that in the first post I did specify higher end non-great western dragon.
If it becomes aware of significant hostile intent which has the potential to kill it, its natural instinct would take it to its lair. If it is already in its lair and becomes aware of activity outside its lair, it knows the day of that activity: ie. it's happening "now". Normal paranoia suggests that uninvited activity might bode ill. If it Detects Enemies, it's not too much of a logic stretch to guess that those enemies consider themselves to be capable of killing a dragon -- and thus to be respected. If it turns out to be wrong and the enemies are just the usual dragon bait after all: well, snacks are never out of place.
Did anyone else suddenly get the image of Jabba the Hutt, at the beginning of Return of the Jedi?
You're right, I probably should have done more with this on the outside. Then again, blast doors at ground level (albeit with a steep hill lead-in) doesn't scream "Dragon here!" quite as loudly. Which leads logically to sunnyside's question:
From the satellite pictures and every composite you can get of the area (some are outdated): More than a hill, less than a mountain, fairly steep and craggy on all sides, rising out of a large (multiple football field large), generally flat area with a few odd pine and spruce trees rooted in the thin soil cover. (Possibly an old beaver meadow.) Close by the beginning of the crag on the side with the blast door, a roughly circular space can be seen: analysis suggests reinforced concrete or something similar, and also burn marks can be identified on the concrete and also on the grass at its edge. A small dirt road leads from the circle up the crag, ending after two zigzags at the blast doors: which are about 60 foot above the level of the flat space. (The crag itself is much higher.) The blast doors themselves are -- well, many of us have mentioned War Games, so about a third the size of those. They swing outward, but are obviously closed now. @ sunnyside -- you can't tell what the background count is from the sat photos. However, the growth around appears normal: and extreme background counts might affect it. Is that enough detail? If not, ask, specifically as possible, and I'll tell you anything you can tell from the sat photos. Beyond that, you'll have to add how you are getting the information.
Appreciate the sentiment, knasser -- but apparently the scenario in isolation seems to be enough to have posted through yet another page while I'm working through these replies! (Btw -- campaign-wise, I agree with you. You've seen my other posts, you know I'm heavily motivation- and context-oriented. But the original statements weren't, and so the scenario which tests them also isn't.) I've addressed why I'm not using Buster's scenario. (Sorry, Buster.) I haven't addressed Frank Trollman's scenarios, but do so now. "Finding" the party, for a dragon, wouldn't be a physical encounter: not with its senses and its intelligence. Both scenarios have the team absolutely ready for anything, while the dragon just charges in. (Okay, in the first it casts a single spell first -- and that not among its best choices.) Very, very biased in favour of the team. Teams can plan and prep and monitor radio traffic and scout -- but dragons just charge in? One page of reply catch-up to go! |
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Jul 20 2007, 05:13 AM
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#233
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
Also sense all dragons are magicians and have sapience power, all dragons can learn metamagic / initiate.
Dragons are equal + to characters by definition (IMO). so they got karma.... A dragon worth his salt would take quickening IMO. Sure for shadowrunners, others may be more important but: Dragons don't have to worry about wards disrupting their quickened spells... THEY are dual-natured either they are allowed through or they break through (and their spells with them). Go with the average dragon (magic 9 6 +3 (on d6). First karma dragon gets initiate: and taken quickening. Second karma dragon gets: Quickned Detect Enemies (extened area) Force 18. Drain = 12 physical, even if dragon gets ONCE sucess he fine (and edge will get him one). Now the dragon gets (spellcasting hits capped at 18) sucesses on a perception test to notice anyone withing 9 (magic) * 18 (force) * 10 meters = 1,620 meters. Now this would be very important for the dragon so he would have spent edge on the casting. So Spellcasting (8) + Magic (9) + 6 (edge) = 23 dice (not counting foci,etc and pretty sure dragon would waste a spirit to aid but will leave that out). 23 dice means (will give him some unamed (foci, aspected domain in lair, or whatever, +1) and call it 24 dice. 8 hits, 4 of them 6s which re-roll for another hit, 9 hits. Characters get willpower+counterspelling dice .. be very generous and call it 17 (10 willpower + 7 counterspelling (or less stats and initiation on mage). If every character on the team has edge and every character on team spends edge (to resist some unknown something) then potienally the 24 dice the dragon has and equal to his, but almost certainly less. There is a very good chance the dragon has good details (up to the equivilant of: "The troll is your contact, monica and she wounded being chased by three ork gangers" (from their example of detect life), as soon as you are within half a mile of him, and as long as you stay there. Catching a dragon flat-footed doesnt happen very often |
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Jul 20 2007, 05:17 AM
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#234
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
Wrong: POWERS coutnerspelling does not apply and even if you are house ruling counterspelling does stop powers.. 11+ counterspelling is getting pretty signficant (and that is presuming a base 7 will power for the troll which havent seen the build listed but sort of doubt) |
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Jul 20 2007, 05:40 AM
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#235
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
Conjurer
Hacker Adept Pornomancer Adept Anti-mage Drone rigger Weapons specialist/Demo expert Do does anyone have objections to this team? Should the team attempt to specialize in a single area to achieve overwhelming force in a single area, or should they cover all the bases? Should the weapons specialist be switch out for a close combat troll? Should the Hacker Adept or Pornomancer Adept be switched out for characters with direct combat power (I’m picking these because or their ability in legwork). What should the secondary specialties of the team member be? For example, the pornomancer could be a mystic adept with counterspelling. What attributes do dragons have in SR4 that need specific attention? 1 Dragon is physically powerful/tough. You'll need heavy weapons to bring it down 2 Dragon is a powerful mage, you'll need some good counterspelling and a spirit pack. 3 The dragon is really good at kung-fu. A non close combat troll being hit by the dragon in close combat has a pretty good chance of being toast. 4 The dragon is dual natured. On the plus side, you can attack is from the astral, bypassing certain physical attacks. On the minus side, it sees through spells like invisibility, physical mask, shapechange, and so on. 5 Do dragons breathe fire in SR4? 6 Did they get any other significant critter powers? |
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Jul 20 2007, 05:46 AM
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#236
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
I've got a new idea. Make a team full of mages. One gets sympathetic link. The rest participate in a ritual of probably a manabolt. I'm sure the full team of 6 mages all grade 4 initiates casting to take out the dragon could do it.
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Jul 20 2007, 05:56 AM
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#237
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
Crusher Bob:
All dragons have elemental attack (usually fire) but not always. There is also a pile of optional powers which are more troublesome. Influence being the strongest. (think the spell but per RAW, counterspelling doesnt work on powers... so dragon can pretty force the next action from anybody but another dragon...) Compulsion could also work, though it says it is often limited to a type of things... though nothing is lited when under optional powers of exampels or if dragons is limited. so could be able to compulse anything, or could be able to chose 'compulsion (horses)' etc. Animal Control, Corrisive saliva, fear, noxius breath, venom are all also possible though generally less troublesome All are magicians (per raw: not adepts or mystic adepts) and know most spells. They also are skilled conjurers. As to vunerable on astral... their stats are generally going to better then the opposition once again,, much harder to oneshot on the astral and they do have mystic armor 8 for protection on astral |
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Jul 20 2007, 06:06 AM
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#238
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
So this means:
Chemical seals/gas masks to protect against noxious breath. Flame and acid reistance added to the armor. The draong still has to see you to use the influence power, yes? So the best bet would be thermal smoke so that the dragon can't see much. And relying oon a lot of drones druing the attack, which can't be mind controlled. Did they add any anti-drone spells in the new magic book? Thing like an radio based silence spell? |
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Jul 20 2007, 06:12 AM
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#239
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Target Group: Members Posts: 46 Joined: 16-July 07 Member No.: 12,274 |
I know it's a bit late (School makes for no posting time), but I need to answer this question seriously now. I'd kill the Dragon for either: A. A +5 Eldritch Blasting Composite (+10) Longbow OR B. A 2055 Ford Americar. Dead serious here. And to actually kill the thing, I'd outsource. You know, to like... Atzlan or some Crazy Fundamentalists or something. |
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Jul 20 2007, 06:13 AM
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#240
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,677 Joined: 5-June 03 Member No.: 4,689 |
Which is pretty much how I feel, just now. Two days! Thanks for the check on sapience generally, laughingowl. As it happens I'm making use of that -- but because of the karma limitation of the scenario, I'm doing it in Knowledge skills only. But I'll definitely keep it in mind for the next (Prime Runner style) dragon. Mmm, spendable karma. Is it really bad that I completely understood the Tucker's kobolds reference? Oh, another point of clarification -- I'd already mentioned it for contacts, but now I'm also explicitly mentioning it for spells: for these two things, I'm translating some of its nuyen into bp equivalent. Still doesn't allow for foci or initiation though. I'm mostly watching the divination discussion, for now. However:
Not a free action, though. If you're using this path, one of the team-to-be is going to have their time largely dedicated to this until you decide the one-step-at-a-time approach no longer matters.
It's also not a clairvoyance spell. Per the quote pulled up by laughingowl:
... which would seem to answer most of the debate. In case it is not absolutely clear, the contents and layout of a room in and of themselves are not an event.
Note also that the Very Specific example requires prior knowledge for the answer to have meaning. Assuming you get an exact answer and that answer is "No": does that mean that Mr. Johnson is going to pick up his bribe some other evening, that Mr. Johnson isn't going to pick up his bribe at all -- or maybe even that Mr. Johnson has had second thoughts about the Pareto efficiency of that bribe and has decided to turn the tables on you?
Only great dragons have the innate power of metahuman form. Otherwise it requires a spell, with associated complex action/rolls/drain. Individual dragons may decide differently if they like this idea or not. Spazzing banner is open-licence :grinbig: That takes it up to the beginning of p.10, non-logged-in view. I'll pick up from there, later. ... oh, does the other-thread discussion about THOR shot nodes suffice or does anyone still seriously want to pursue that route? |
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Jul 20 2007, 06:16 AM
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#241
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
If it is holed up in it lair, expect a force 18 or so ward around it (twice magic). (or better yet is just makes its lair its magical lodge. no limit on force, save availaibty = F*2 and cost is a mere F*500). More importantly it can be improved incremental so to improve a lodge by one force is 500 nuyen an availabilty 2 test, and a one day ritual. repeat that a hundred times and you have a force 100 lodge for your lair... not a spell in the world or any other atral being going to touch that (though I assume most would house rule smack this if player tried it) an extra 18 dice is going to eat through any ritual spell cast. Figure ritual magic is still capped by force (unless edge used and I would say ALL have to spend edge). Still have to get a link, or are you planning on doing symbolic linking with the -6 dice penalty, thats going to hurt. Figure 6 is the most you can have do the ritual (well 7 if they ALL have exceptional skill ritual sorcery) since ritual sorcery caps the number of participants. |
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Jul 20 2007, 06:40 AM
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#242
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Interference, from Street Magic is pretty decent. ;) |
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Jul 20 2007, 06:49 AM
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#243
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
Talia:
Divination: You also misssed each divination increases threshold by +1 until the subject or situation changes sufficently per GM. (if the subject is infiltrating the lair and I dont care how you rephrase it thats what you doing) then each question to get a better description of the lair hits that +1... thats going to knock divination down to 4-5 useful questions at absolute best and it is still very GM determenable on how symbolic the information is. but it is NOT hollywood style spy satelite filming the dragon taking a bath... If you have money :-) spend a good pile on binding materials. Dragons have conjuring group at 6, a good magic and can safely summon spirits that mortals dare (I.E likely force 9-10 for stun drain only). A force 10 spirit is something to be feared :-) Also see earlier psot about warding, dragon can raise some serious wards (or better yet the abuse of making it a magical lodge (by RAW legal) allowing the dragon to have a force 50 or so mana barrier around his lair if given time to prep it. That stops cold any ritual sorcery, survielance. spirit support NOT called after mage has some how entered the lodge, though doesnt hamper the dragon one bit. Also while the team is there to hunt the dragon the dragon is going to be hunting the players the instant it knows there are there.. (given a few spirits on patrol that will happen). A counterspelling mage is great and wonderful, but plenty of ways to unexpectidly break LOS, or best thing... identify the counterspeller.... spirit engulf... eat party at leisure. |
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Jul 20 2007, 06:54 AM
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#244
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
Also as mentioned if giving money.. ritual material arent that much.
I would expect the dragon to likely have 8 bound spirits at 'safe' rating of force 6-9 (just under its magic so no real risk in summoning and binding). If not intitiating (must be young dragon indeed), then spirits protecting its home and or on standby would be one of its better defenses, and they can safely call spirits that might kill a metahuman. (well all save a serious initiated metahuman). Don't let the dragon be idle... it will act not react to any threat. |
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Jul 20 2007, 07:02 AM
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#245
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
Any help to be had from having some paranormal critters as part of the team's equpiment? If the pronomancer adept takes handle animal 6 and improved animal handling 3, even some normally untrainable animals are probably fair game. would 6 or so hell hounds, barghests, or whatever else you can think of help. They are dual natured and can fight spirits in a pinch. Any chance of the dragon being effected by any critter powers? (paralyzing howl, etc?)
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Jul 20 2007, 07:03 AM
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#246
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
No. Not one fucking chance. There is no way that a dragon is going to voluntarily decide to subject itself to 18P drain every five or six weeks. That's crazy talk. Making wards is fun for the whole family, but overcasting wards is not something that anyone does. -Frank |
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Jul 20 2007, 07:35 AM
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#247
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
I'm familiar with Tucker's kobolds. The case consisted of (a) a party that was expecting a monster 1... monster 2 approach and was too dumb to adapt to the very different game that the DM was running. And (b) the kobolds weren't merely using a few advanced tactics, they had the characters walking through a customised, pit-trapped, sliding walled, oubliette out-fitted step-by-step killing machine that would have taken such creatures years to construct, all for the purpose of small groups of humans who chose to walk down their corridor. I think that fits my point about you having to take things to extremes in D&D to make sneakiness outweigh character level. Remember that with all that hideous one-sided preparation and advantage, it still took the kobolds a long, long time to whittle the PC's hit points down to nothing. The D20 rules support vast power differences by level and balance attack and defence equally. These two together inherently make sneakiness less significant than the Shadowrun rules do. They even explicitly specify how much extra damage you do from backstabbing someone according to level. The low-level thief gets an extra 1d6. The high level 2d8 or whatever. Contrast the effect on different hitpoint characters with Shadowrun where it simply opens the potential for raising your damage up the nearly fixed damage track. The rules difference between D&D and Shadowrun have a fundamental effect on the playstyles of the two games. I don't say that sneakiness has no merit in D&D, but it needs to be taken to exaggerated extremes to make it comparable to character level and Tucker's kobolds illustrate that. |
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Jul 20 2007, 07:55 AM
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#248
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
Edit: Edited to account for points made by Vaevictis.
Magic Ritual Team, I made them all the same to save on headaches, so its the same guy cloned 6 times for this. Characters are: [ Spoiler ] Premiss is, any of them takes their artisan skill, and makes a pretty clay dragon to use. They all have a sympathetic focus, so they take no penalty for this. Then they all get together in any of their own magical lodges (if you want to argue on the creation of them, they summon spirits with search to find the regents needed). Since they've had enough time to get 1mill¥ + 200karma then they've had enough time to waste hunting down regents for this. If you want to argue it more, they expect to kill dragons, they follow the dragon slayer mentor spirit. Now then, they get all together in their happy little magical lodge. And start some ritual magic. Overcasting Slay (Dragon) at force 20 (twice all their magic ratings). Theres 6 of them, and they all have 7 in ritual, pick whoever to lead. They order one of their 2 beast spirits to guard all of them. (6 force 6 spirits guarding 6 guys each.) Everyone uses edge on their test. Oh, and they order their other bound beast spirit to aid sorcery on it. Dicepools are: - 6 for sympathetic + Magic + Ritual + Mentor Spirit + Spellcasting Focus + Spirit + Edge to reroll failures. -6 + 10 + 9 (spec) + 2 + 10 + 6 = 31 dice. Average of 10 hits each. Reroll failures of 21 dice, and average is another 7 hits. Total 17 hits per guy. 17 * 5 = 85 dice bonus to the main caster. Main caster is going to cast. Uses edge to explode 6's and remove the force limiter on the test. His pool is the same, plus edge w/ exploding 6's, and plus the teamwork dice. Making it 31 + 6 + 85 = 122. He rolls, average of 40 Successes. 20 of those explode for another 6 Successes. 46 total successes. Force 20 Slay (Dragon) Spell. Dragon gets his resistance check, Willpower + Counterspelling + Edge (8 + 8 + 8) = 24 dice. Average of 8 hits. 4 explode for another 1 hit. Total 9 hits. Net hits, 35 on the side of the ritual. 20 + 37 = 57P the dragon takes. Exploded. Oh yes, and drain. Being shamans they resist with willpower + charisma (4 + 3). They're looking at (Force / 2) - 2 Drain. 20 / 2 = 10. -2 = 8. 2 net hits on average, and they take 6P. They then heal each other up, and go about their business. Spirits do even better, with average of 4 hits, and take only 4P. Anyone find anything that contradicts this? |
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Jul 20 2007, 08:13 AM
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#249
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 530 Joined: 11-June 05 Member No.: 7,441 |
Since what we're really trying to do is press the "I WIN" button, how about we toss in a mage that decides to abuse ally spirits, as we're creating him in a vacuum?
Race: Human Body: 2 Agility: 2 Reaction: 2 Strength: 2 Charisma: 3 Intuition: 5 Logic: 3 Willpower: 5 Edge: 8 Magic: 5 Qualities: Magician, Lucky, Spirit Pact (5BP), Sensitive System, Simsense Vertigo Tradition: Hedge Witchcraft Skills: Conjuring Group (4), Spellcasting (4), Counterspelling (4) Spirit Pact is a Life Pact. Remaining Build Points: 58 Suggested Spells: Armor, Astral Armor, Levitate, Prophylaxis, Combat Sense, Spacial Sense (Extended Area), Catalog, Deflection, Detect Enemies (Extended Area), Increase Reflexes, Increase Body, Increase Agility, Increase Reaction, Increase Intuition, Increase Willpower, Increase Strength Remaining Build Points After Suggested Spells: 10 How do we spend our money? 010,000 on binding materials for the ally spirit. 006,000 for full body armor 001,000 for helmet 005,000 for chemical seal 001,500 for chemical protection (6) 000,600 for fire resistance (6) 000,900 for insulation (6) 001,200 for nonconductivity (6) 003,000 for thermal dampening (6) 001,500 for ballistic shield 002,400 for 4 rating 6 medkits 040,000 for a pain editor 200,000 for medical services (see below) 000,750 for monofilament sword Spending Karma: Initiation Grade 1: Channelling (8 karma, group/ordeal (astral quest)) Initiation Grade 2: Ally Spirit (10 karma, group/ordeal (asceticism)) Initiation Grade 3: Shielding (12 karma, group/ordeal (familiar)) Create Ally Spirit: Force 11 (88 Karma) Materialize (1 forms, 2 Karma) Ally Spirit is then: Body: 11 Agility: 11 Reaction: 11 Strength: 11 Charisma: 11 Intuition: 11 Logic: 11 Willpower: 11 Magic: 11 Edge: 8 * Inherent Powers: Materialization, Astral Form, Banishing Resistance, Realistic Form, Sapience, Sense Link * Inherent Skills at rating 11: Assensing, Astral Combat, Dodge, Perception, Unarmed Combat * It has 11 powers from spirits the character can summon: Earth, Water, Plant, Air, Task * Recommended powers: Concealment, Confusion, Search, Energy Aura, Fear, Noxious Breath, Psychokinesis, Energy Aura, Weather Control, Silence Extra Ally Spirit Abilities: Exotic Ranged Weapon (11, 5 karma), Blades (11, 5 karma), Infiltration (11, 5 karma) Total Ally Spirit Cost: 105 Unspent Karma: 65 (* may be needed in summoning of ally spirit) *** In case you think I may die summoning the above ally spirit, see my exploitative bullshit below. I think I have a "trick" so to speak. I think that provides a pretty good base for making a sufficiently powerful character. The strategy is obvious: Channel the ally. Cast one of the recommended spells using the ally's aid sorcery ability. Have the ally sustain it. Repeat ad nauseum. When you're done, I think you look something like this, numbers in parenthesis represent "average" spellcasting results -- 1/3*(4+11+11)=8. Good luck dispelling that, especially when I'm casting it at high force levels. Body: 13 (19) Agility: 13 (19) Reaction: 13 (19) Strength: 13 (19) Charisma: 11 (resist spells and powers at 3) Intuition: 11 (16, resist spells and powers at 5 (9)) Logic: 11 (resist spells and powers at 3) Willpower: 11 (16, resist spells and powers at 5 (9)) Magic: 11 Edge: 8 Armor: 18/14 (26/22), immunity to normal weapons at 22 Special: (+8 ) dice on Suprise, Reaction tests (Combat Sense) Special: (+8 ) dice when defending melee attacks (Combat Sense) Special: (+16) dice when defending ranged attacks (Combat Sense, Deflection) Initiative: 24 (38 ) Initiative Passes: 1 (4) Counterspelling Dice: 4 + 11 (aid sorcery) + 6 (shielding) = 21 Spellcasting Dice: 4 + 11 (magic) + 11 (aid sorcery) = 25 Skills: Conjuring Group (4), Spellcasting (4), Counterspelling (4), Assenssing (11), Astral Combat (11), Dodge (11), Perception (11), Unarmed Combat (11), Exotic Ranged Weapon (11), Blades (11) Melee: Monofilament Sword, (STR/2+3)P=12P +4P (energy aura)=16P Ranged: Noxious Breath, 11S toxin, nausea. I'm not entirely sure what to spend the rest of the karma left over after summoning the ally spirit. Probably spells, maybe a weapon focus, maybe other foci. ... and obviously, this guy will have some pretty hefty bound spirits available, I guess anything less than or equal to 8 force is safely assumable. And all I have to say is, thank goodness dragons don't get channeling! Tactics: 1. Concealment -- -11 dice to notice this guy. 2. Use catalog and spacial sense spells to find the nearest fiber-optic mage sight thingie. Sneak up to it. Look back at the dragon (fiber optics are two way, you know...). Confuse him. 3. Whistle happily as you effortlessly sustain the confusion power and stick a wad of bubble gum* in the mage sight thingie. 4. As you move along, continue using catalog and spacial sense to find more mage sight thingies. Stick more bubble gum* in them. 5. Use psychokinesis liberally to stay out of LOS of things that might cause you trouble. Like mage sight thingies. Or explosives, which you detect with your catalog and spacial sense. 6. Probably some other stuff. Haven't given it too much thought. * Or something similarly portable and useful for clogging up little holes. Like rubber cement. *** To summon our ally spirit, we're going to be an exploitative SOB. Hopefully, I've got all my ducks in a row and I haven't missed something that makes this all fall down. From channeling: "... the magician can use her own skills and has fine motor control while enjoying the enhancing benefits of the Possession power..." From possession: "... the spirit's Force is added to the vessel's Physical attributes. While possessed, the spirits Mental and Special attributes are used..." Note that Magic is a special attribute, so channeling a spirit higher in magic than you results in setting your magic rating to the higher rating (apparently, the same goes for a lower magic rating?). Hire a fairly powerful magician to heal you. He should also cast Increase Attribute (Body) to raise your body to 9. Hire a fairly high skilled medic to use first aid on you. We'll go ahead and allocate 200,000 nuyen to this, since it's going to take some time. The magician needs to be paid well enough that he's willing to overcast, too. (we can heal physical drain now, right?) Go to Alaska in the summer (for the loooong days.) 1. Turn on your pain editor. Set X=6 LOOP: 1. Summon Force X earth spirit. 2. If you take any drain, heal it. 3. Channel the spirit. 4. Your physical track is now 8+(X+13)/2 + overflow of X+13 5. Set X=X+2 IF X=28 END LOOP You'll never go unconscious; it's not even possible. Thanks to the channelling increasing your body by two each step, your physical track increases by one. The equilibrium point where you could go unconscious is 28, hence we stop summoning after force 26. On average, you won't take any real drain at all, because you'll always about twice as many dice to resist drain than the spirit can to resist summoning -- You'll have (F-1)*2 dice to resist the drain, and the spirit will have F dice to resist the summoing. If something really bad happens, and you take obscene amounts of drain, and your medics can't heal you, use the Life Pact to heal up, but only in multiples of two (so as not to waste karma), and only enough to keep you conscious when the channelled spirit goes away. Once you get to force 26 and you're untouched, you will look like this: Body: 39 Willpower: 26 Magic: 26 Stun track: 21 Physical Track: 27 1. Summon a force 11 spirit. Spend an edge point on the drain resistance. Take no drain. 2. Bind the force 11 spirit. Spend an edge point on the binding and on the drain resistance. 3. Worst case scenario, you take 44 points of stun damage. You won't go unconscious. 4. If the binding didn't knock you out, pay 100 karma for your ally 5. Have your medics heal you. 5. Pay up to 14 karma to heal up your physical damage. This is the "100% safe" way of doing it. If you're feeling saucy, you can push it and get a higher force ally. And yes, things start to get tough as you get higher level force spirits summoned. Keep trying; as I said, on average, you'll take no drain, and you have that life pact to heal what your buddies helping you can't. |
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Jul 20 2007, 08:17 AM
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#250
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 530 Joined: 11-June 05 Member No.: 7,441 |
Main problem I see with your approach is the creation of the sympathetic link, which is probably a threshold 16/1 day test. I don't think we have this kind of time, and you will only know to make the sympathetic link once you've been hired. Each mage should get a -6 for use of the symbolic link; did you account for that (I didn't see it) |
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 5th January 2025 - 01:36 AM |
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