Unified Magic Theory, Conceptual questions Options

[DSHolmes]

Trying to wrap my noggin around some concepts described in SoTA: 2064 when it comes to UMT:

1. Assuming a Hermetic Mage is UMT, can they learn spells from formulas written from any tradition, without the usual cross Tradition penalty?

2. Can a UMT Mage create or take use of a Shaman's Lodge?

3. Does a UMT Mage still require a Conjuring Library and Circle when summoning Nature Spirits (assuming they achieved Grade 3 and changed their spirit summoning type).

Thanks in advance!

[Ryu]

1. Yes.

2. Yes.

3. No. In SR3 the mechanism used depends on the spirit type.

[Pendaric]

1. No
2. NO
But the thats is what they hope to discover and the vice versa but finding the base line of magic. The why it all works.

[Kagetenshi]

A UMT mage can do whatever the old mage could do, but now their head is filled with lies and nonsense.

~J

[Pendaric]

Just like a chaos mage but with better explanation.

[fistandantilus4....]

By the book, the only difference IIRC in 3rd edition is that they can switch from summoning elelmentals as a hermetic does, to summoning spirits as a shaman.

[DSHolmes]

If it helps any, I'm looking at the game rules page (not the flaver text), (127 SoTA 2064). {deleted by DSHholmes because it's better to be safe than sorry when it comes to potential copyright infringement)

If it weren't for the qualification [including shamans, houngans, and wujen], I'd just assume it was just noting that (per MiTS), UMT Mages can use circles produced by any Mage of any school at no modifier, bonus or penalty.

I guess I'm just trying to get a grasp of what "tools and trappings" means in this context...

[DSHolmes]

[Ryu]

The rules state that the representation of a formula does not matter to them, so all formula are kosher. At least answer 1 is YES. Why would they not be able to use shamanic lodges if they are even able to switch to nature spirits?

[Snow_Fox]

a unified magical theory looks beyond the ideas of the source of magic-are you controlling the energies and anthropomorphing it or actually in contact with sentient beings- and focus merely on the focusing of magic. While this makes them far more adaptable magicians they are working solely on the surface or it and fail to look into the real depth of magic and where it comes from. the ease of it will mean more magically active people will be lured to this path of thought, but they will produce no great magical works or break throughs. They are the line cooks in a diner compared to great chefs or building contractors compared to archetechs. They are good workers and dependable but not creators.

[Ravor]

Perhaps, of course if they are right then once all of the nonsense about Traditions goes away it will free up the brillent magi to build off of each other's works far more easily and create greater wonders then ever before.

[Snow_Fox]

so speaks one of the line chefs! Just because you understand how the formula's flow, doesn't mean you understand what it is. a builder may be able to understand the importance of different bricks and concrete and loads taken but will never design a cathedral- just work on things that those with vision make-or conversely because you know what a tree is made of and how it grows doesn't mean you understand the tree. I may not be able to tell you the number of cloroplasts or work as qucikly, but I'll wager I understand the tree far better.

[Kagetenshi]

And likewise if Time Cube is right, it will allow… something.

But don't knock the line chefs! A good saucier in an environment with a chef de cuisine open to experimentation on the line can work wonders.

~J

[Snow_Fox]

Hey, I respect line cooks. They churn out meals on a regular basis, without change, night after night so that people who neither understand or respect them can have a good time. but it's the chefs who envision the meals the line cooks mass produce.

[Ravor]

Except that if it weren't for the great minds of today building on the work of yesterday's great minds we wouldn't have such wonders as the Matrix or sub-orbitals. Magic is no different, and "art" comes from within, all those great chefs and artitects you speak of, they create their artwork working under the same set of rules.

[Ravor]

Because something to remember is that using your example of a tree, with UMT not only do I see the beauty of the tree as a shaman does, I can also see the lovely harmonary of every part of it working together logically just as a mage does.

In fact, I predict that by 2070 Mages and Shamans will both be able to summon Nature Spirits as well as bind elementals due in part to UMT. :cyber:

[Kagetenshi]

And with Time Cube, you can see the beauty of the four simultaneous days in each rotation.

~J

[Ravor]

As long as the Time Cube Theory is able to provide results then by all means... :cyber:

[Kagetenshi]

You realize that not one paper advocating the UMT has been published in any of Applied Thaumaturgy, the Journal of American Magical Research, the European Thaumaturgical Journal, or Letters of Magical Research? Why do you think that is?

~J

[Ravor]

Because UMT threatens to upset the applecart, and those stuffed-shirts don't want to face possible competition from Shamans anymore then the Shamans want to have people comb over their ideas with a more logical mindset.

Still you can mark my words, as time wears on UMT will be accepted and more and more people will understand that when a Great Dragon scoffs at the idea of the Mage/Shaman spilt then perhaps we should listen.