[X] My Assistant

[Wounded Ronin]

So, I went ahead and downloaded the extremely detailed character generator-cum-game version of Twilight 2000 as abandonware from Underdogs. Last night, I fired it up without reading the manual and chargen was so intensely detailed that felt like I could trip and hurt myself in a paroxysm of delight. The degree of detail that the game gives to weapons, career paths, nationalities and language (holy crap, you can even apparently make a character whose native language is Gaelic) made me so delighted. I haven't seen anything this cool since 1st edition D&D. But it's also modernistic and tactical with guns and such, which appeals to me as well. Finally, it's post apocalyptic, which is of course pretty 80s/early 90s, so please pass me the Italian-manufactured 9mm sidearm.

Today, I went ahead and downloaded the manual, and as I confirmed the complexity of the rules (AND the inherent awesomeness of a pen and paper chargen program cum video game which you don't even get anymore with all these d20 knockoff games) and the loving detail to the pen and paper rules (not like in Knights of the Old Republic where the d20 love was even simplified to some degree) I decided that there was clearly no greater computer RPG rules-wise that I have seen in an extremely long time.

Now, I feel the stabbing of a bitter regret. That I did not actually ever play Twilight 2000 back when people actually played it/heard of it/didn't bring up pages of Twilight Princess crap when trying to Google the manual. That I will, in all probability, NEVER get to play it because nowadays you're not allowed to have complicated and detailed rules and rollplaying has become the enemy.

Sniffle.

[Fortune]

When was it made? What OS is it designed to run on? Couldn't you find a copy on E-Bay or something?

Oh, and a linky to the Character Generator (and Manual) would be cool.

[PBTHHHHT]

Ah, thought you were talking about the tabletop version at first.
They're coming with a new edition of the game called Twilight 2013. This company http://www.93gamesstudio.com/ acquired the license to make it.

[Fortune]

[nezumi]

If you acquired the book 'on the cheap', especially if the company is defunct, you could possibly distribute it and start such a game, *cough cough*. It's not like there's a serious want of roleplayers who like complicated rulesets hanging around DS.

[Wounded Ronin]

Fortune: The game was designed for DOS and I actually found it on Underdogs. However, even using DOSbox, I appear to be getting a small but crucial interface problem which may prevent me from being able to complete the game...


PBTHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHT: Considering the game seems to adhere like damp cotton briefs to the tabletop rules I'm sort of talking about both. I mean, I'm sure the rules are even better when you have the flexibility of flesh and blood as well.


Nezumi: Not a bad idea. Maybe I'll look into that when I get back to the US. I heard that the 2013 ruleset had a revised storyline to make it less 80s-tastic (i.e., nuclear war, no Yeltsin) but be that as it may I suppose we could always use the old backstory if we wanted to. Kind of like how someone might use the 1st and 2nd edition SR backstory for more of a Japanese corporate domination feel with the 3rd edition rules if they wanted to have that flavor of game.

EDIT: It says that it's still under development anyway. :/ Maybe it's possible to find the original ruleset, anyway, which is more likely to have glorious tables of enormity.

[Fortune]

Ah. :(

Well, at least you inspired me to go and find the RPG books (or at least try). Funny ... I've seen that game around quite a bit in the past, but never actually played, or even read the books (other than a quick glance).

[Counter Weight]

We're thinking about using the Twilight 2000 setting, or at least parts of it, in a D20 Modern game we'll be running in real life. Looks to be fun, but not sure when we'll get it off of the ground.

[Wounded Ronin]

We're thinking about using the Twilight 2000 setting, or at least parts of it, in a D20 Modern game we'll be running in real life. Looks to be fun, but not sure when we'll get it off of the ground.

Why not use the rules? I'm pretty sure that Twilight > D20 modern when it comes to realistic firefights.

[PBTHHHHT]

Maybe they wanted to add in magic/supernatural elements into their game?

[Counter Weight]

Why not use the rules?

Because I don't have them, but I do have D20 Modern. Add in that my players know how to play D20 Modern, and don't know how to play Twilight 2000 (And have shown little interest in learning yet another system) and the choice becomes clear and easy for me.

I'm pretty sure that Twilight > D20 modern when it comes to realistic firefights.

Realistic firefights is the absolute dead last reason I'd choose any system. In fact it's generally not even a consideration what so ever. We do a pretty good job of hacking away gratuitous rules, so any system is easily made as "realistic" as we need it to be for us to have fun.

If I wanted strict realism and firearms I'd just stay at work, on the range. (Most of my group is comprised of either people who are in the field of Law Enforcement, many ex Military like myself.) Luckily we find other things in the game fun too.

[Wounded Ronin]

Because I don't have them, but I do have D20 Modern. Add in that my players know how to play D20 Modern, and don't know how to play Twilight 2000 (And have shown little interest in learning yet another system) and the choice becomes clear and easy for me.



Realistic firefights is the absolute dead last reason I'd choose any system. In fact it's generally not even a consideration what so ever. We do a pretty good job of hacking away gratuitous rules, so any system is easily made as "realistic" as we need it to be for us to have fun.

If I wanted strict realism and firearms I'd just stay at work, on the range. (Most of my group is comprised of either people who are in the field of Law Enforcement, many ex Military like myself.) Luckily we find other things in the game fun too.

Lots of people (but not all of them) who were in the military or are on the SWAT team or what have you, when I talk about video games, say that they're not interested in them because they already do the real thing. But the way I see it, it's not about a vicarious experience. Rather, it's about the art and science of simulationism. It's about having fun by trying to mathematically model very complex real world situations as best as possible in the context of gaming. You'll never get a totally realistic firefight simulator in terms of a computer game or RPG but the question is how close can we get while still being elegant? Trying to solve that question takes years of attention and thought.

[Counter Weight]

And appeals absolutely zero to me and my group, which is why we won't be trying it. But if it is fun for you, and your group who am I to stand in your way? I always say stick with what you like.

[Wesley Street]

2300AD which takes place in the future of the Twilight 2000 world was the very first RPG I ever picked up. It puts to detailed hard science-fiction what Twilight 2000 does to post-apocalyptic warfare. Imagine a future where the French rather than the Anglophones, Chinese or Japanese were the dominate human culture. Character generation was an intense and detailed process with you picking body type (endomorph, ecotmorph, mesomorph), nationality, career (Troubleshooter, Journalist, Corporate Man, every type of warrior be it on land, sea, air or space, Prospector, Texas Ranger, Scientist, etc.), specialties, gear, etc. The aliens, such as the Kafer, were very well thought out and the box set came with a huge map of explored space along with star names and stutterwarp routes. I miss that game and wish I'd never sold it.

[CircuitBoyBlue]

...Finally, it's post apocalyptic, which is of course pretty 80s/early 90s...

The world didn't end in the 80s, Wounded Ronin. The world began in the 80s.

[Ed_209a]

I would recommend using SR4 in the Twilight 2000 setting.

Shadowrun is designed around cinematic stories of survival starring highly trained people running around with guns and talking people out of stuff.

Twilight 2000 is designed around gritty stories of survival starring highly trained people running around with guns and talking people out of stuff.

Once the cybernetics, magic, and whizbang tech is gone, Shadowrun turns gritty _quickly_.

You could look at it like the entire world is like the Barrens.

[Wounded Ronin]

The cover art from Twilight 2000 is awesome. Look at everyones' hair.

[Earlydawn]

So, is Version 2.2 of the Twilight 2000 tabletop worth shelling out the cash for? How detailed is detailed? Examples are appreciated. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[WhiteWolf]

T2K was a great game to play. Back in the late 80s and early 90s a group of us would play some D&D, Traveller (by far the best SciFi game), Twilight 2000 (T2K), and Shadowrun.

One of the things I really liked about T2K was the mind set. The whole game was about survival. Where were you going to get your next meal from, do you have enough gas, ammo, water, etc. The game was also very unforgiving and we had a very good GM, so you really had to be on your toes and work as a team. Each player would have a second character rolled up for each day we would play.

If you ever get a chance to play the game (old version) I would recommend it.

edit: Mongoose Publishing is bring back the old school Traveller rules! For those of you interested here is the link http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/home/ser...php?qsSeries=51

[AJCarrington]

There is a new version of Twilight 2000 coming out (in development):

Twilight 2013

AJC

[Wounded Ronin]

The 80s hair guys with caseless rifles aren't on the cover. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Wesley Street]

Cheer up... maybe they'll have feathered hair and leg warmers as optional equipment in a future supplement.

[PBTHHHHT]

There is a new version of Twilight 2000 coming out (in development):

Twilight 2013

AJC

Uh, yeah, see post number 3 back in July 2007. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[PBTHHHHT]

stupid double post. ugh.

[Wounded Ronin]

Cheer up... maybe they'll have feathered hair and leg warmers as optional equipment in a future supplement.

It raises your to-hits by 10% if you're using an OICW modified to accept caseless ammunition and re-accessorized with an underbarrel keytar!