House Rule: Initiation for mundane, Expertise and tricks insteadof magic Options

[Dentris]

Hi, it's been a while since i posted in this forums, but after much time, here are my brand new house rule.

Expertise rank.

As a mundane character progresses, he learns more than what skills and attributes can cover. He learns to survive in a world of magic, matrix-omnipresence and cyber-monsters. Expertise ranks work just like initiation or submersion, but is limited only to mundanes. No characterwith the Adept, Mystic Adept, Magician or Technomancer quality may ever increase his expertise rank.

The maximum expertise rank a character may have is equal to his edge rating, and the maximum edge rating is equal to 6+edge (+1 for humans, +1 for lucky characters) This is pretty much the initation rules, but switchmagic attribute for edge.

To increase his expertise rank, a character must spend 10+(3 times new rank) karma points. In addition of increasing his maximum edge value, increasing an expertise rank by one also enable the character to choose a single trick.

Tricks:

+1 IP (this is incompatible with any magical or implant improvement to initiative)
+1 to street cred (this may increase a character's street cred above its charisma rating. May be selected thrice)
+1/-1 to notoriety (may be selected thrice)
+1/-1 to Public awareness (may be selected thrice)
Mundane Spirit (the character is considered to have a counterspelling skill equal to his expertise rank /2, min.1, but may only use it on himself)
Henchmen (the character has attracted a number of henchmen equal to his public awareness to his service. They have a professional rating equal to his expertise rank /2, min.1 and share the same edge points than the character. If they ever die, they are replaced within a month)
+1 to any physical or mental attribute (they are not compatible with any magical or implant improvement. The attribute may go above its natural maximum, but not abive its augmented maximum)
+1 to any group of skill (social, physical, combat. Any skill with an initial rating of 0 is not improved with this trick)
Jack-of-all-trade (unskilled attempt do not suffer from the normal -1 penalty, athough skills that cannot be used untrained may not be used by the character)

comments, thoughts?

[Buster]

Personally, I like it better when mundanes are small and frightened... :D

[Rotbart van Dain...]

:|

:eek:

:dead:


..Edge 14...

[Dentris]

Is it so much more powerful than magic 14? I don't think so.

[Aku]

well, you WOULD get to add an ADDITIONAL 14 dice to any test you use edge in... if that was your chosen use for the edge, i should say

[Ravor]

Personally I've never cared for "mundane initiation".

[Glyph]

As I've said before, what would the point of cyberware be if a mundane, uncybered person could do the same superhuman feats?

Also, increasing Edge is overpowered. Cain thinks it is worth 55 build points to start out with 8 Edge instead of a "mere" 6 - increasing it beyond 8 is increasingly broken. It doesn't compare to Magic at all - Magic doesn't give you an exploding dice pool that you can add to any other dice test. And imagine someone with an Edge of 14 making a longshot test - the nearly-impossbile would be impossibly easy for such a character.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Except for the increasing Edge, I do like mundane initiation, however...

I must say that the +1 IP and the +1 to attributes should, in fact, stack with augmentation.


That said, I believe this has already been done before, and debated at length.

[mfb]

someone else brought up this same idea, some time back. i'll say now what i said then: it goes directly against the basic premises underlying a cyberpunk world. the flesh, in cyberpunk, cannot be improved without a cost to the soul.

[Kyoto Kid]

...I do like the Mundane Spirit trick however, what would substitute for Magic Attribute in the pool?

...heck any edge a Mundane can get against spells is all right in my book.

[Shinobi Killfist]

I'd just remove the skill cap if i want mundanes to be able to do more fantastic things. Heck I think it should be removed anyways, maybe just increase the cost a bunch past 6.

[Cain]

I'll be glad to repeat a few examples of why Edge is broken, upon request. Let's just say that you could take out 14 Citymasters with a flechette pistol. :S

Anyway, I agree with mfb and Shinobi. Magicians have enough to spend karma on, so just lifting the cap would make mundanes even up real quickly.

[Critias]

I like the idea of it, but only in a game without magic or cyberware (which I've run before, it was called "REAL LIFE SUCKS").

In a standard Shadowrun setting? Well, no. Sorry. The Harrison Ford-type guy with no chrome, no bioware, and no magic on his side? He should be the friggin' underdog. People get augmented for a reason.

[PlatonicPimp]

I like the Idea, but hate the implementation.

What I might do is make a few new edges, edges you have to be mundane with an essence greater than X to use. I might vary what X is for each edge. Opps, I mean positive quality.

Let characters who qualify buy these positive qualities after character generation with Karma.

For consideration, then

streetwise 15 Karma. Requires: mundane, 5 essence. The character has faced all kinds of extra-human opponents, and has learned how to deal with them. In any physical combat where he faces an opponent with multiple IP, this character gains 1 extra IP.

Jack of all trades 10 Karma, Requires Mundane, 4 essence. Pretty much as you described it.

I have a hunch 20 Karma, requires mundane, 4 essence. either through a zen-like connection to the universe, or just havign been around the block a time or two, the character guesses right more often than not. The player may spend a point of edge to get a hunch. Roll edge+intuition [2]. For each hit, the gamemaster must provide one correct hunch to the player, such as "the safe is behind the painting", or "I think he'll be at Dante's tonight". This should be used to keep the story moving along. Think of it in the context of what a divination spell could potentially do, and you won't overshoot.

whole soul 10 Karma, requires Mundane, 6 essence. The character's aural integrety, combined with their absolute lack of astral awareness, makes them highly safe against attacks on their aura. Double their dice pool to resist possession, essence drain.

OH NO! Does this seem too much like feats from DnD? Well, yes, but I don't mind riffing off the one solid game mechanic of d20.

It's not for every game. It's true that leaving mundanes in the dust is thematically appropriate in a cyberpunk setting. My suggestions are off the cuff with no real look at game balance. But one thing that always bothered me is that there seems to be almost no advantage to having high essence if you are not awakened. I'd Idealy like loosing a point of essence to actually be a sacrifice. Worth it, perhaps, but something you thingk twice about.

As to the relation of edge to all of this, I hope you don't mind math.

Edge cap = 3 + (1/2 essence - magic), min 3. Human adds 1, lucky adds 1.

Basically, this just says that 3 points of edge depend on you not having any cyber or magic. An essence 2 human cyborg would have an edge cap of 5 instead of 7, whereas the Magic 9 dwarf has an edge cap of 3 (the minimum).

[Fortune]

[PlatonicPimp]

It's less that I want to give mundanes a break, and more that I want essence loss to mean something more than "I'm approaching maximum cyberware capacity". I only add the bit about magic reducing edge to maintain the cyber-magic balance. It would be broken if sammies lost edge for their augmentation and adepts did not.

Though I truly beleive that relying on outside augmentation (cyber or magical) would inevitably reduce a person's innate capabilities, making them reliant on the tools. Shoes are a perfect example of this. If we had gone barefoot all our lives, our feet would be tough enough that we wouldn't need shoes. We'd also have better balance, wouldn't get various and sundry foot desease like athlete's foot, our toew would be more prehensile, and we'd be more aware of our surroundings through the additional tactile input. However, shoes do protect our feet from dangerous things we could step on, and allow us to walk faster. It's a trade-off. The rule just puts my own philosophy into the game.

[sunnyside]

From a purely GM perspective I like the idea of having something more than the current options for mundanes.

However I have issues with the proposed implementation because it makes the PC likely to be even less rounded. By which I mean being complete retards when it comes to anything but a pistol or whatever.

So I could see given them special after a time. But at firs typically I want the to diversify their skillset.

Maybe let them buy regular positive qualities?