Laser Weapons, until we can pull them out of ARSE Options

[Ravor]

I've been thinking about how best to include laser weapons in Fourth Edition until ARSE comes out, and here are my thoughts so far.

Third Edition

-Ares Redline
Ammo ( 10 ) Mode ( SA ) Damage ( 12M ) Avail ( 18 ) Cost ( 75,000 :nuyen: ) Legal ( 4-K )

-Battery Pack (clip)
Avail ( 10 ) Cost ( 250 :nuyen: ) Legal ( -- )

The battey pack recharges at the rate of one shot per thirty minutes.

Fourth Edition

-Ares Redline
Damage ( 6P ) AP ( 1/2 Impact ) Mode ( SA/BF ) RC ( N/A ) Ammo ( 12c ) Avail ( 12F ) Cost ( ??? :nuyen: )

-Battery Pack (clip)

Avail ( 6 ) Cost ( ??? :nuyen: )

The battery pack recharges at a rate of one shot per minute.


I've never been very good at converting damage codes between the two systems, so I went with ( 6P ) and gave the laser burst fire capabilty, I dropped the Avail down to ( 12F ) similair to the treatment that the monowhip was given, but I'm not sure how much the price should have dropped since the Cannon Companion days.

Any thoughts or improvements?

*Edit 1.1*

Lowered the Battery pack's Avail to ( 6 ).

Raised the ammo to ( 12 ) shots per clip to allow for an even four bursts.

[sunnyside]

Well drop the burst fire. Unless you want to make an SMG version. But lasers and recoil is something I would avoid mixing as much as possible.

12M to 6 is fine 7 would probably be ok.

I'd keep the cost high, gives the mundanes something to aspire to.

[odinson]

Wouldn't the laser then be exactly the same as a gun with stick n shock ammo. I thought they were supposed to be powerful.

[Narmio]

[Jaid]

[odinson]

Not only as good as stick n shock, but essentially the same as stick n shock, but without the taser effect. It's been a long time but lasers used to be deadly didn't they.

Going from light pistols of old they were 6L and are now 4 with no AP
heavy pistols were mostly 9M and they are no 5 with -1AP
The ruger thunderbolt was 12S and the super warhawk is 6 with -2AP

To convert old guns the patter seems to go something like this:
Old wound level -> New power
L -> 4
M -> 5
S -> 6

Power of old attack to new AP

(Old power -6)/3 = AP

So a 12M laser would convert to 5P with -2AP.
Then in the section on lasers you would say that the person resists with half impact. Also since they lost power as the range category went up you would give them +1AP for each range category beyond the first.

So a person with 8 impact armour would resist with 1/2 impact and then get a further 2 points of armour reduction at short range giving him a total of 2 dice from armour at short range 3 at med 4 at long and 5 at extreme. That would make them a bit better.

The bigger lasers just have higher power so you would keep increasing the AP.

Alternately you could just give them a huge AP and have lasers resisted with impact. So maybe a laser would be something like:

Ares Redline
Damage ( 5P ) AP ( -6 ) Mode ( SA ) RC ( N/A ) Ammo ( 10c ) Avail ( 12F ) Cost ( ??? nuyen.gif )

And lasers would be resisted by impact armour and the AP would go up by 2 for each range category beyond the first.

I also changed the ammo down to 10 because that is what the old ones had.

[TonkaTuff]

Actually, lasers have (for the most part) never been particularly good weapons in SR. Even the heaviest man-portable laser available in 3rd edition could only cause a Moderate wound without staging. Their main benefit was having about 50% more Power than a typical weapon in whatever class they were designed to emulate (which made them ok for at least piercing vehicle armor, if not doing real damage to them), going against the lower armor rating, and (arguably) doing elemental (light) damage for hurting spirits/critters. Though much of the Power would tend to get eaten up with environmental and range penalties.

They've always been (and probably will largely remain) vanity weapons. You break them out because lasers are cool and impressive. Nevermind the facts - over a hundred years of media have elevated them to near-godly status in the minds of most people (see also: katanas). And while they may not be the most devastating weapon, they do manage to quite effectively convey the ideas that that you mean business and have enough credit to burn on a lasergun.

[kzt]

Lasers are sexy, Miniguns are scary. When the security escort vehicles pop up the miniguns things are not going to turn out well. Though I'm not sure SR ever reflected how insanely lethal they really are, they got the idea across.

[toturi]

It used to be that Immunity to Normal Weapons meant exactly(almost) that, that is why weapons that had elemental effects like flamethrowers, lasers and tasers were niche weapons that you brought out against those things with Immunity. But in SR4, elemental effects in mundane weapons have been nerfed by no less than the headman himself, so I do not hold out much hope that lasers will be anymore useful than the average S&S.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

[odinson]

[sunnyside]

Ya know. Doesn't anyone buy the nonconductive upgrade for their NPCs? Don't tell me you're having "elite" forces fight your shadowrunners and they don't have this 1,200 nuyen upgrade. Even midgrade security should occasionally have some of this.

That generally makes the armor value against electricity equal to or higher than ballistic. So it's like S&S is a AP 0 weapon.

Lasers could bypass that, if you consider their damage type as light (or undefinied with a high AP).

Also unless your GM is a serious softie you can't shoot S&S through most cover. If the shot doesn't penetrate through an unarmored chest cavity It won't punch that table or cubicle wall either. Lasers might well be able to do that.

[toturi]

[sunnyside]

Sure it does. It's in the barrier section. The specific example is shooting someone through a door.

[NightmareX]

[toturi]

[sunnyside]

Regardless, shooting through cover is covered in RAW.

[knasser]

[Aku]

[kzt]

[toturi]

[Ol' Scratch]

Personally I'd go with the stock stats (ie, picking the weapon with the most average stat values for its type) and tack on the Light elemental effect. If, as mentioned above in SR4, tasers and flamethrowers don't count as an elemental attack for dealing with Immunity to Normal Weapons, neither should this weapon. The Light elemental effect is just being used for the secondary effects it provides.

In other words, an Ares Redline would function similiar to an Ares Predator with standard ammunition and would require an Exotic Ranged Weapon skill. Additionally, the special rules for its use would have it be resisted by half Impact armor instead of Ballistic armor, the brightness would cause a Glare modifier for the target if they lacked Flare Compensation, and it could ignite highly flammable materials.

Availability would be entirely up to the GM, though I'd recommend 14® at most. Cost would probably be about 3x or 4x the cost of the base weapon you were basing it off of. "Clips" and whatnot would be the same as the base weapon but with a cost equal to half the weapon's cost per "clip." Maybe find some rules for other items that can be recharged and base such a ruling on those. Finally, adding a +2 Concealability modifier for pistols and +4 Concealability for assault rules to account for the size of the "clip" it uses.

If that wasn't enough of a counter for you for the benefits, maybe reducing the rate of fire by one category would work, too. An SA Laser Pistol would drop to a SS Laser Pistol whereas a FA Assault Laser Rifle would be a BF Assault Laser Rifle with an SA mode available.

Pretty simple and elegant solution in my opinion and gives the weapon some desireability.

[sunnyside]

I don't much like the "glare" bit though. It's a laser, not a flashlight or a star wars blaster. Unless there is dust in the air you don't even see the beam.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

You will, once it has enough power to turn air into plasma. ;)

[Ol' Scratch]

There's a reason it's called a Redline. :)