PC Insect spirits?, Are mantids still an option? Options

[Lilt]

What do people think of the idea of a Mantid Insect Shaman PC in this edition? IIRC it was considered fair game in 2nd edition, although I think 3rd edition gave them a potency stat (I can't find my copy of MitS, so I'm not sure) which made them less playable.

I was just wondering if people considered them, specifically in the case of the mantid spirit which hunts other spirits:

1. Balanced.
2. Playable.

I've casually read-over the rules for this edition, and nothing leapt out at me as being really broken. Inhabitation into living vessels has advantages and disadvantages, and I'm not really sure what happens when a character runs out of services from an inhabited spirit... Depending on what happened, that could really make or break things.

[Kyrn]

I didn't think they really ever were an option. IIRC the mantid spirit eventually takes over the shaman and boom, NPC time.

[Starmage21]

Playable? Yes

Noone is going to like you though, and there is a bounty on your head from the get-go just for being an insect shaman.

Difference being that bug spirits arent motivated to go back to their metaplane after services run out. Theyre stickin around, and youll have to deal with that.

[FrankTrollman]

Insect Magicians in abstract are playable in Shadowrun 4th edition from a pure power standpoint. Indeed, if you roll with the right kind of crowd (say, a Firewatch or Jo-Pok crowd), you could even be open about your abilities and your loyalties as a hive-based insect magician.

But Mantids? Holy crap no. There isn't any excuse I can think of for any group of runners to accept a mantid into their ranks. The mantids have no friends and don't compromise or get along with anyone - not even other insect spirits.

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Mantids distinguish themselves from other insect spirits in that they must kill a sapient creature to make a new mantid. Furthermore, to add to their already phenomenal body count, they have to whack an insect spirit (who is itself likely the result of killing a sapient creature) in order to increase the size of their available spirit army. So every time you see a Mantid Spirit, you're looking at probably several dead humans slain in series to get to that point - ew.

There are groups in Shadowrun which have made peace wih one or more hives. I can't actually think of any group off the top of my head who have managed to have peaceful relations with any of the solitary spirits (their loyalty to the nest isn't really enough leverage to have a reasonable dialogue). And of course, Mantids are the most hateful, uncompromising, and implaccable of the Solitary Insects. They are also the most structurally incapable of making peace with humanity.

So yeah, while early editions tried to play the Mantids off as the "enemy of my enemy" because they fought other Insects - they also kill way more people than any of the other nests or hives per capita. The only argument for humans supporting that side is that overall the Mantids are losing.

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Long story short: if you want to play a Bee, an Ant, a Termite, or whatever then go for it. It won't fly in every group, but it'll fly in many groups.

But Mantids are right the fuck out.

-Frank

[Arz]

Just going by the general summoning rules for all insect spirits you would have a tough sell to any group.

Firstly, insect spirits have an unlimited amount of services since you are regarded as queen/mother until one is summoned.

Secondly, evanescence!?! Until you start killing people to make them hosts your spirits degrade at the rate of 1 force per day. Since you like your spirits the PC is going to start coercing host pretty quick.

Your fellow PCs and GM are going to have a hard time working around these issues. Consider looking at the spirit knack for a highly limited option since a full insect shaman is going to quickly tick off most groups.

[hyzmarca]

The trick to playing a Mantis shaman is quite simple. Never summon a spirit into a female host. The second that you do, you're dead. You're dead because she will kill you. Being a Mantis shaman with an army of male drones won't cause too many problems.


And as long as you don't summon a female (who will reproduce and kill you, possibly not in that order), you aren't killing anyone. You're evolving them into higher lifeforms. Yea, that's the ticket. You're helping the hosts evolve into higher life forms with cool powers.

[Glyph]

Higher life forms with cool powers who do whatever you tell them to... :P

But the comment about never summoning into a female host got me thinking. In SR4, that might be harder to avoid than it first seems. With surgery and biosculpting, gender is relatively easy to change. But would the spirit recognize the "new" gender, or the original one?

[Ravor]

Well considering that it's paid for with Essense I'd say the new one, after all, anything else that is paid for with Essense becomes a part of your Pattern so it makes sense.

[hyzmarca]

But what if the host has paid essence to be both?

[Ravor]

You get one very confused Spirit. :cyber:

[mfb]