 Asymmetry and firearms, Which stats to use? |
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 Jul 29 2007, 01:52 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 251 Joined: 29-April 02 Member No.: 2,659  |
Say Edward has a cyberarm with Agility 9 and a meat arm with Agility 3. He is firing his Ruger 100 at a target. Does he use:
1) Agility 9, since you aim with one arm and use the other to steady the rifle? 2) Agility 3, since his meat arm is the weakest link? 3) Agility 6, because you average them? |
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Jul 29 2007, 02:07 AM
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#2
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Personally I'd rule that if he is using two arms then he has to average the scores, but I'm not entirely sure that is :S RAW :S.
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Jul 29 2007, 02:11 AM
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#3
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
The rules state that you use the average of every body part being used in a significant way with the action. Using a "two-handed weapon" means both arms are being used at the very least, so you'd use the average of whatever stats those limbs have.
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Jul 29 2007, 02:45 AM
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#4
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Target Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 25-July 07 Member No.: 12,354 |
Then how does this work with Body?
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Jul 29 2007, 02:48 AM
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#5
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Same way. It depends on what you're using Body for.
If you're doing a standard Damage Resistance Test, for instance, it's the average of all your limbs. |
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Jul 29 2007, 02:55 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 251 Joined: 29-April 02 Member No.: 2,659 |
The example in the book confuses me. Critical George's meat bits have a Body of 3. He has a cybertorso with Body 6, a left cyberleg with Body 5, and a left cyberarm with Body 3. When shot, shouldn't his Body be:
Head: 3 + Torso: 6 + Left arm: 3 + Right arm: 3 + Left Leg: 5 + Right Leg: 3 = 23 / 6 = 3.83 Rounded down to 3. In the example it appears to be: Torso: 6 + Left Arm: 3 + Left Leg: 5 + Meat: 3 = 17/4 = 4.25 Rounded down to 4. |
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Jul 29 2007, 03:17 AM
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#7
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Yeah, my assumption is that the guy who wrote the example was on crack. It should logically be Head + Torso + Left Arm + Right Arm + Left Leg + Right Leg regardless if they're a cyberlimb or meat. The example seems to be assume Cyber Limb + Rest of Body even when the "Rest of Body" is everything but a Cyberskull.
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Jul 29 2007, 03:42 AM
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#8
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Old Man of the North Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 9,674 Joined: 14-August 03 From: Just north of the Centre of the Universe Member No.: 5,463 |
When I asked the Shadowrun help line regarding how to calculate BOD, AGI and STR for cyberlimbs and cybertorso, I was told to use the average of five parts: 2 arms, 2 legs and the torso. Don't count the head. Any meat part used the Attribute value.
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Jul 29 2007, 07:43 AM
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#9
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,382 Joined: 22-February 06 From: Shadowland Member No.: 8,297 |
Which makes the example work: Torso - 6 R. Arm - 3 L. Arm - 3 R. Leg - 3 L. Leg - 5 6 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 5 = 20 20 / 5 = 4 Still, why isn't the head added? |
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Jul 29 2007, 07:52 AM
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#10
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
I can totally see the skull being added for Damage Resistance Tests, especially since a lot of people like trying for a head shot as part of the abstract nature of it. But for most tests, your head doesn't really play a vital role in what you're doing, other than being the housing for your brain. So it makes sense just about anywhere else.
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Jul 29 2007, 07:52 AM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 251 Joined: 29-April 02 Member No.: 2,659 |
A head's Agility and Strength are irrelevant I guess, and rather than have seperate rules for different attributes they just made skulls not count at all. Unless you get headshot. |
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Jul 29 2007, 09:58 AM
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#12
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
the head's Str is fairly irrelevant unless you're biting someone, but i can see there being issues lining up a shot if you can't hold your head perfectly still. longarms shooting depends partly on placing your cheek in the same spot on your weapon's stock every time, and keeping it there while you acquire your target and fire.
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Jul 29 2007, 10:20 AM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: 16-January 05 Member No.: 6,984 |
On the same note, with cyber forearms, what weapons would use the forearm stats, what would use the forearm + arm average and what would use more than those?
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Jul 29 2007, 11:15 AM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 171 Joined: 5-February 05 Member No.: 7,053 |
And another question: if you can use an SMG one-handed without penalty (I haven't got a reference for that, but I remember it from somewhere), then if you have one Agi 9 cyberarm and one Agi 3 meat arm, and you *choose* to grip the forestock, does your dice pool suddenly go way down?
Because that would be bizarre. |
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Jul 29 2007, 02:02 PM
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#15
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i can't think of any weapon that would use only your forearm. maybe scissors, if you were snipping with them rather than stabbing.
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Jul 29 2007, 11:00 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 327 Joined: 28-January 06 Member No.: 8,209 |
Or head-butting? |
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Jul 29 2007, 11:01 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 327 Joined: 28-January 06 Member No.: 8,209 |
Maybe a hand drill, or something that requires rotational force rather than lateral? If you, say, have your arms tied but get one free to the elbow, you can physically swing a sword. I mean, yay penalty dice on the attack, but that could (at least arguably) count as forearm-only on the attack strength. |
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Jul 30 2007, 12:48 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 16-August 06 Member No.: 9,130 |
The arm used to pull the trigger is the most vital. Personally I would rule Agility 9. I would also allow someone with a cyberarm to install special software for firearms. This would give something like a +1 or +2 bonus due to accuracy. The latter part is entirely a house rule.
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Jul 30 2007, 12:50 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 249 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando Member No.: 815 |
You mean a firearms based cyberlimb optimization costing 5k and 2 capacity as per Augmentation p44-45?
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Jul 30 2007, 04:02 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 16-August 06 Member No.: 9,130 |
Hardy har har, well I do not have augmentation yet so I would not know. Yet another reason for me to pick up this book.
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Jul 30 2007, 04:07 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 249 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando Member No.: 815 |
Don't worry, this book seems to have the disturbing ability to codify various peoples' better house rules. The writers are mind ninjas I tell ya.
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Jul 31 2007, 06:29 AM
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#22
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Well either that or they spend time lurking on the forums. :cyber:
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