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> Brainhacking, Ethics? What are they?
Dancer
post Jul 31 2007, 09:24 AM
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Say I want to get past a receptionist, so I hack his datajack/internal commlink/'trode net and subscribe my (hotsim equipped) commlink. I then run a personafix that makes him very trusting and gullible, sell him a story about forgetting my ID code, and cover my electronic traces as I walk away.

In other situations I use other 'fixes. If I'm intimidating someone I make them a spineless coward. If I need to get information out of someone I turn them into a garrolous sot.

1) Is this possible?
2) Could a Personafix include a prohibition against noticing the fact that you've been fixed?
3) What sort of bonus would be applied to social tests after installing a suitable moodchip/personafix on somebody?
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Blade
post Jul 31 2007, 09:39 AM
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1) It's possible through datajack and trode net but not internal commlink (except if this internal commlink is equipped with a hotsim module).
But most of the time the trode net/datajack will have a signal reduced to the minimum (if they are not directly plugged in the commlink through wires or skinlink). So except if you stand right next to the victim, you won't be able to send the signal directly from your hotsim module to the DNI of the victim. If you hack the victim's commlink first and use it as a relay, the signals will go through the victim's sim module (which may not be hotsim enabled), which will limit the strength of the signal.
You might affect the victim but not as much as with a true BTL signal.

Furthermore the RAS might trigger (I don't know which element take care of that).

2) It was already possible two decades ago, according to the 2XS novel.

3) I guess it'd depends on the quality of the programming of the P-Fix and how it is related to the situation. But I think that with a good P-Fix you can just skip social test and have the guy do and believe what you want him to.

Some people might complain that it's too powerful and game-breaking, but that's just a technological Mindcontrol spell.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Jul 31 2007, 10:06 AM
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With the Sim Module now a seperate box, it does not matter where it is.

So once you took control of his brain interface, whatever that may be, you are free to feed any simsense you like.

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MaxHunter
post Jul 31 2007, 11:34 AM
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I like it! Where's unwired when I need it!!

Cheers,

Evil-minded Max
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NightmareX
post Jul 31 2007, 12:24 PM
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QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)
With the Sim Module now a seperate box, it does not matter where it is.

So once you took control of his brain interface, whatever that may be, you are free to feed any simsense you like.

Rotbart, that simple statement and the realization of it's correctness opens up a whole new world of agony in SR. My players will certainly be cursing your name - thank you :evil:
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Blade
post Jul 31 2007, 12:45 PM
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As I said, it matters a bit because you need to send the data out from the sim module directly to the DNI of the victim without going through another sim module which would limit the signal.
And connecting directly to a DNI is not so easy.
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Dancer
post Jul 31 2007, 01:22 PM
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QUOTE (Blade)
As I said, it matters a bit because you need to send the data out from the sim module directly to the DNI of the victim without going through another sim module which would limit the signal.
And connecting directly to a DNI is not so easy.

You'll need to get a modified sim module within wireless range of the target. Perhaps in a microdrone?
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Cadmus
post Jul 31 2007, 01:31 PM
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Well we know who's been watching ghost in a shell stand alone complex now don't we :D
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Buster
post Jul 31 2007, 01:44 PM
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QUOTE (Dancer)
QUOTE (Blade @ Jul 31 2007, 12:45 PM)
As I said, it matters a bit because you need to send the data out from the sim module directly to the DNI of the victim without going through another sim module which would limit the signal.
And connecting directly to a DNI is not so easy.

You'll need to get a modified sim module within wireless range of the target. Perhaps in a microdrone?

Can't you just hack in through the matrix? If the target is connected to the matrix, then they are always within wireless range.
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hobgoblin
post Jul 31 2007, 01:48 PM
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they wonder what effect a cold-sim (the default) module will have on any potential personafix attack, as thats a BTL, and requires hot-sim.

still, there is a fluff notice in emergence about some people doing a cold-sim tour of the matrix and being killed by a TM attacker. now if thats scaremongering or "truth" thats a different story...
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Dancer
post Jul 31 2007, 01:54 PM
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QUOTE (Buster)
Can't you just hack in through the matrix? If the target is connected to the matrix, then they are always within wireless range.

I'm routing to the module via the matrix, but I'm assuming that I have to go directly from the module to the DNI interface. Otherwise you could fry people's brains from the other side of the city. And you wouldn't need a modified (and illegal) sim module to play BTLs, you could just stream the uncompressed version from an illegal node.
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Buster
post Jul 31 2007, 01:58 PM
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You do need a hot/illegal sim module to play BTLs but that sim module can be sitting in your lap at home since sim modules can be connected remotely to the target's neural interface such as their datajack, trodes, even their cybereyes. (that's assuming you can route a BTL stream thru the matrix)
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Blade
post Jul 31 2007, 02:07 PM
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I guess you can route a BTL stream through the Matrix because if you couldn't, Black Hammer and other such attacks wouldn't have the same effect on hackers in hotsim.
EDIT : Actually, the BTL signal sent on the Matrix will basically look like "Send (255,255,255) on brain input #3. The Sim module will do the translation in "brain signal")

I guess the only thing that could filter the BTL signal is the unmoded simmodule. That's why I suggest that you have to send the signal directly to the user's DNI because if you route it through his simmodule, it'll filter it.
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Dancer
post Jul 31 2007, 02:11 PM
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QUOTE (Blade)
I guess you can route a BTL stream through the Matrix because if you couldn't, Black Hammer and other such attacks wouldn't have the same effect on hackers in hotsim.

But Black IC only kills people if they're using hot sim. If the hacker is using cold sim, the remote host can't send a hot-sim signal to his DNI. That's why I think you need a local sim module.
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Rifleman
post Jul 31 2007, 02:27 PM
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QUOTE (Blade)
I guess you can route a BTL stream through the Matrix because if you couldn't, Black Hammer and other such attacks wouldn't have the same effect on hackers in hotsim.
....
I guess the only thing that could filter the BTL signal is the unmoded simmodule. That's why I suggest that you have to send the signal directly to the user's DNI because if you route it through his simmodule, it'll filter it.

Really, both Blade and Dancer have it right. The only major problem is that pesky Sim-Module we always mod and then forget about.

For everyone else, it's the hardwired wall between the hackers and civilization. Since it's a problem of a Hardwired module (Main book, pg. 229) you can't just hack around it.

Well at least not directly.

There are some ways around this, especially if they are connecting wirelessly to their com via Nanite paste or some other means. And that would be to jack their access and have them subscribe to your (hot modded) com first and then to their normal, hum drum and safe normal simlink module com.

... Wow, suddenly Datajacks make so much more sense.
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Blade
post Jul 31 2007, 02:31 PM
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@Dancer: Maybe I wasn't clear enough, or my English isn't good enough, but that's exactly my point.

Basically you have :
BTL -> Matrix -> Commlink -> Sim Module -> DNI -> Brain

The signal is only modified by the Sim Module which will convert it to signal the DNI can feed to the brain. If it's a hotsim module, the module will convert all the signal. If it's a coldsim module, it will filter the signal.

So if you want to send a BTL signal to the brain of a user of a coldsim module, you'll have to do it that way :
Hacker's commlink -> Hackers hotsim module -> Victim's DNI -> Victim's Brain
The problem is that it's hard to get close enough to the victim's DNI signal (using a drone or a RFID tag might be the best solution).
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Backgammon
post Jul 31 2007, 02:43 PM
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You could do like they do in GitS and plug your own commlink into the user's datajack, then fry his brain.

Or another really cool way is the Handshake of Death, if both the aggressor and the victim use skinlink (which is likely). Make skin contact, lightning-fast hack yourself into his PAN, have your hotsim-commlink access his DNI device (trode/datajack) and fry his brain.

I don't think you can fry someone's brain from 100km away because, for that trick, you need to have the DNI device receive input from YOUR commlink, not the users. So unsubscribing the DNI from the commlink in order to have it subscribe to yours would instantly cause it to be unable to transmit it's signal over the matrix.

This is going on the assumption that DNI devices only accept 1 source of input. It doesn't state that anywhere, but it makes sense for me (and also acts as a brain-fry limiter, so sounds good to me).
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hobgoblin
post Jul 31 2007, 02:46 PM
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hmm, handshake upload of agent...
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Dancer
post Jul 31 2007, 02:51 PM
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I think I could fry someone's brain from 100km away, if there was a commlink with a modified sim module in direct wireless range of their DNI device. I connect to their commlink via the matrix, and from there to their datajack. After owning the datajack I subscribe the hot commlink to it. I now have a hot-sim enabled commlink directly connected to their DNI, and can commence brainhacking.

An implanted commlink with an unmodified sim module is probably proof against brainhacking though, there's no way to get an unfiltered signal (unless I can deactivate their sim module in software, then subscribe the modified sim module I planted nearby to their internal commlink. Not sure if this is possible.)
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Rifleman
post Jul 31 2007, 02:54 PM
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QUOTE (Dancer)
An implanted commlink with an unmodified sim module is probably proof against brainhacking though, there's no way to get an unfiltered signal (unless I can deactivate their sim module in software, then subscribe the modified sim module I planted nearby to their internal commlink. Not sure if this is possible.)

The problem is that the sim module is what's connecting them TO the Matrix. So if you turn it off on them, they get dumped and you lose connection.

Also, if they have a datajack and are connected by wire to their comlink, it's as effective as an internal comlink.
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NightmareX
post Jul 31 2007, 02:58 PM
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QUOTE (Blade @ Jul 31 2007, 09:31 AM)
The problem is that it's hard to get close enough to the victim's DNI signal (using a drone or a RFID tag might be the best solution).

Couldn't that problem be subverted by simply hacking the victim's commlink, then using that to hack the datajack (then subscribe it to your commlink etc)?

Edited - beat to the punch it seems ;)
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Dancer
post Jul 31 2007, 02:59 PM
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QUOTE (Rifleman)
The problem is that the sim module is what's connecting them TO the Matrix. So if you turn it off on them, they get dumped and you lose connection.

No, their commlink is connecting them to the matrix. The sim module just allows them to use VR to interact with it.
QUOTE
Also, if they have a datajack and are connected by wire to their comlink, it's as effective as an internal comlink.

But who would do that? Apart from hyper-paranoid runners.
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Dancer
post Jul 31 2007, 03:02 PM
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QUOTE (NightmareX)
Couldn't that problem be subverted by simply hacking the victim's commlink, then using that to hack the datajack (then subscribe it to your commlink etc)?

Yep. But your commlink will need to be in range of their datajack.

Anyone know what the Signal of a standard datajack is? It could be anywhere between 0 (6m, 'intra pan device') and 2 (100m, 'headware transceiver') as far as I can tell from the book.
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Backgammon
post Jul 31 2007, 03:06 PM
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Here's a thought - is a hotsim a software or hardware modifications...? If it's software, you could modify it on the fly, turning the user's benign sim module into a lethal hotsim modified sim module. That would solve the distance problem.
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Backgammon
post Jul 31 2007, 03:06 PM
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QUOTE (Dancer)
QUOTE (NightmareX @ Jul 31 2007, 02:58 PM)
Couldn't that problem be subverted by simply hacking the victim's commlink, then using that to hack the datajack (then subscribe it to your commlink etc)?

Yep. But your commlink will need to be in range of their datajack.

Anyone know what the Signal of a standard datajack is? It could be anywhere between 0 (6m, 'intra pan device') and 2 (100m, 'headware transceiver') as far as I can tell from the book.

Could depend on the model. GM's call.
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