No hard limits on cash, set limits to soul Options

[Cynic project]

When will the silly twits who write shadowrun get this.

Now,I do not have the number in front of my but from what I gather cyberware gets hosed yet again. Now, I am not going to quote the numbers, because that is not the point.

Wired is old tech,and as such takes a lot of essance, but is cheep.That is hard pill to swallow but one that you can. Synaptic boosters is newer and has less impact on your essence but costs more money....Move by wire systems are newer than boosters and cost less money and more essence?


But wait Moved by wire is bigger...It is bigger to the point that nearly anyone who could get them could not take full advantage of them.


Why?

[Synner]

[mfb]

i'm going to streamline what Synner just said: "huh?"

[Fortune]

[Dissonance]

I figure he's asking why Move By Wire costs more than everything else in terms of both essence and money.

My answer? MBW is typically the kind of thing that players, y'know, don't really get. It's the kind of thing you put on that big scary CZ, because up until recently, it used to give you brain cancer and a whole other set of awesome abilities.

It's basically just the kind of top-tier reaction-ware that you're likely never going to get unless you play the same character for a solid year or two, or something.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

[FrankTrollman]

I don't see it as cyberware getting hosed. Move by Wire is simply an object which is virtually useless to high end shadowrunner street samurai (and due to availability, therefore virtually useless to all shadowrunners). In the long run, and with all resources going to improving the individual, you'd always want to go with Synaptic Boosters, Reaction Enhancers, Skill Wires, and Synthacardiums as separate units.

But for the corporations, for whom additional manpower can be had by saying "let's put some more manpower on this problem", the device makes sense. It's like Kamikaze - street sam don't normally use it but it's a reasonable :nuyen: cost to pump a competent normal up to street samurai specs.

---

That being said, I am fairly disappointed with it. Having an item whose singular purpose is to reconcile the existence of NPCs of appropriate threat levels with the world is not what people think of when they think "Move by Wire". Or at least it wasn't in previous editions.

In previous editions, the high end MbW was essentially unavailable to PCs and existed as a plot device explanation for bringing out the occassional "boss monster". Now that players can finally get one themselves it turns out that the tech curve has passed it by and it's still an NPC only item.

But nothing's stopping you from being the super street sam who rolls 18 dice on a full defense against ranged attacks. It's actually quite easy to attain that state. So printing new items that fill any purpose in the world that don't happen to go into the high-end street samurai build doesn't strike me as a nerf of anything. Once you've got everything you need to be a bad-ass, what difference does it make if they publish a hundred or a thousand items that you don't use?

If they printed some shitty guns in Arsenal, would it in any way damage your ability to gun down force 10 spirits with a Ranger Arms from the basic book? Or would it simply enrich the game world to see what the child soldiers in the Central African Empire were bringing to the party?

-Frank

[Squinky]

Wow, I actually loved the new move by wires, and really considered having my sammy upgrade to them asap.

Currently he has wired reflexes one, skillwires 2, and some reaction enhancers....So he is going to trade those all in and upgrade to Move by Wire 2 and get better reaction, better skillwires, and a sweet dodge bonus on top of the standard ips.... for about the same essence as before....It's a sweet deal to me.

[Ol' Scratch]

I think he's confused as to why Move-By-Wires 3 costs less than a Synaptic Booster 3, yet provides more bang for your buck at the cost of a grotequesqly high Essence requirement. I think.

If so, the answer is simple. Move-By-Wires 3 really isn't cheaper because of the Essence cost. Same goes for Wired Reflexes, really, with MBW simply being an upgrade to WR (granting only +1 Reaction, +1 Dodge, and Skillwires per level over WR; and if you take that retarded FAQ answer as gospel, it can also take advantage of Reaction Enhancers while WR cannot).

Why isn't it cheaper? Because in order to install it to a point where it leaves you with enough Essence for other things, you have to get it at at least beta grade if not delta. Throw in the secondary costs for Biocompatibility: Cyber and Adapsin, and it quickly escalates to a ridiculous level. At Beta grade and with Adapsin treatment beforehand, it costs you 3.00 Essence plus the Adapsin cost. Which still makes it more than twice as expensive Essence-wise as a Synaptic Booster 3, but friendly enough that you can cram a ton of other things in. Financially, however, it's now way more expensive than a SB is. To the tune of 700,000+ nuyen.

Which, I think, fits in with the philosophy the original poster was concerned about. That SOTA cyberware should be more expensive than bioware that's been around for a while. (I'm unsure because he also seems concerned that cyberware should be cheaper than bioware at all times, too. /boggle)

EDIT: The only other thing I can think he may be trying to say is that they should have gotten rid of Nuyen costs for gear at character creation in much the way they got rid of Memory requirements. That would allow players to wrack up on whatever implants they deemed appropriate for their character, using only their Essence as the limiting factor. It would also have the side effect of forcing the designers to balance implants amongst themselves rather than just throwing a high financial cost on one and calling it a day.

While I can understand that desire, it's not very practical. Cost is a balancing factor and offers a lot more options for players and designers alike. You can choose to either throw a ton of nuyen, eat up a ton of Essence, or find a balance between the two when creating a character. That's far more preferable to just having a bunch of must-haves with everything else being sub-quality choices.

[James McMurray]

Mental note: when asking designers a question, don't start by calling them twits. It sounds ignorant and reeks of jackassery. :D

[jklst14]

I might be misremembering but I think Move by Wire is newer (introduced in Cybertechnology whereas Synaptic Accelerators were introduced in Shadowtech). That being said, I think the developers did a great job on Augmentation and I am overall very pleased with the boost cyberware has received.

[Aaron]

[Cynic project]

My point is why is bioware always more essence friendly?

Look, wire reflexes level 3 is nearly the same cost in term of money as boosted level is,and what.More than three times the essence. Why did wire reflexes get left behind? If no one is upgrading them or improving them, then why are they still made?

The fact is if we are to buy that both wire reflexes and MbW systems are not the cutting edge tech, why hasn't any made anything better?

The only way I can see logic is the the boosters are the best. I can buy that pill...But the fluff doesn't seem to be that.

Bio should not just be hands down better. Money shouldn't be the only factor with it is not. But let's say that you really care about money. You really do. For the love of Zombies make it so that the cyber when is a higher grade compets with the bio in both cost and essence. As it is right now, the idea that cost is a factor is only real to runner. Corps make the items and sell them based on what they think they can charge you for it. If the makers of shadowrun could put out the same number of books sold and charge you a grand a book.(They maybe be even legally required to change that much)the Books would cost a grand.

[Ol' Scratch]

Because bioware is more "alive" than cyberware is, and thus more Essence friendly. Both by its nature and by design.

Both bioware and cyberware have their perks and flaws. In general, cyberware is cheaper but eats into your Essence while the opposite is true of bioware. Both have their unique capabilities as well, with cyberware being far less limited than bioware is. Choice and consequences for your choices. It's a Good Thing™, not a Bad Thing™.

[eidolon]

[Ravor]

Well is is some minor power creep in Street Magic in that the new spirits are generally more useful then the ones in the corebook, but that can be taken care of with some simple house rules.

[FrankTrollman]

[Cynic project]

[NightmareX]

[Fortune]

[NightmareX]

[Synner]

[mfb]

[Thyme Lost]

[Ol' Scratch]

And, most importantly, sometimes players choose equipment, spells, and abilities based upon what their character would actually possess, not what crunches out as the absolute best.