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> New Player Needs a little help, just want to know what is useful
klinktastic
post Aug 2 2007, 01:44 PM
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Hello all! I am going to be joining a Shadowrun campaign soon and I have never played. I spend a few hours reading the 4th ed Player's Guide so I have a good idea of the type of character I want to play. The GM hasn't really released a lot of info about what the setting will be or anything, but I assume it will be fairly typical. He's been GM'ing for a long time, so I bet he knows what he's doing.

What I want to make is a 'Face' character for the group. I want to have solid connections, probably a few decent ones, that are fairly loyal. I'll be wanted to spend a little money on some equipment and upgrades (tailored pheromones, etc). That part is easy, I was just wondering, what other skills are good for a Face character to have? I know it comes down to preference, but I know there are good synergistic attributes and skills that complement the face skills. I was wondering what they would be. I mean, obviously there are a lot of interesting skills and what not, but I was wondering if you guys could give me some tips.

Thanks!

Klinktastic
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hyzmarca
post Aug 2 2007, 02:48 PM
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It depends on what type of face you want to make. Stealth is always good, particularly disguise.
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klinktastic
post Aug 2 2007, 03:01 PM
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well, i want my character to be interesting. So stealth is a good option, but then aren't i going to be gimpped on any sort of combat abilities. I guess what I am asking is, what are good combinations, that way I can pick what kind of face I want to play...if that makes sense. I don't know what types there are, so I can't really pick.
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Herald of Verjig...
post Aug 2 2007, 03:09 PM
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I tend to prefer magical types, so I'll suggest the face-conjurer. At least in the SR3 rules, both lying and conjuring are linked to charisma, so you can focus mainly on that. It also gives you some quick-call minions who can do the fighting for you and/or use their concealment power to help you sneak away quietly.
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Dashifen
post Aug 2 2007, 05:01 PM
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Moved topic to SR4 forum; original poster mentioned that he was using that edition. He/She might get a more focused response with respect to edition differences here rather than in the general SR forum. Sorry for any confusion.
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hyzmarca
post Aug 2 2007, 05:11 PM
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For concealability, pistols are always good. For range, you'll want something bigger.

There are so many different combat paradigms that it is impossible to name one correct skillset. It very much depends on what kind of character you want.

You can easily make a face-sniper, for example, or a face-gunbunny. A even a face-swordsman can work.
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Ryu
post Aug 2 2007, 05:20 PM
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The primary face attribute is charisma - easy enough. You might want to define a minimum list of skills you got to have.

Logical expansions of the concept are intuition and perception, as a face needs to be fast on the uptake. As you are not going to be a tank in combat you might consider becoming a (maybe secondary) hacker. Else do what hyzmarca said and go for stealth.

Depending on how your GM will handle connections, you should either load up on cheap ones or buy only a few very good ones. Loyality 1/ Connection ? is easy to gain in some groups (should be in my opinion), and therefore a waste of BP. In other games connections are impossible to come by and someone has to have the exact right connection anyway.
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Dashifen
post Aug 2 2007, 05:21 PM
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A face character really just needs a decent Charisma and the Con, Etiquette, and Negotiations skills to do his or her job. Since those three are all in the Influence Skill Group, that might be a good place to start, too.

After that, though, you can go anywhere you want. I'm a fan of Hacker/Face builds because you can expand your connections outside of your personal contacts and into the Matrix. Plus, the same Charisma linked skills that you use in the meat-world to talk with people are those you'll use online when you're in a chat room.

4th edition really created a niche for Social Adepts, too, so you could go that route as well. Astral Perception, Commanding Voice, Cool Resolve, Enhanced Perception, Enthralling Performance, Improved Ability, Improved Sense, Iron Gut, Iron Will, Kinesics, Linguistics, Magic Sense, Multi-Tasking, Piercing Senses, Spell Resistance, Three-Dimensional Memory, and Voice Control are all good Social Adept powers. Many of them are in Street Magic, though, so you might need to pick up that book in addition to the SR4 core rulebook if no one else in your group has it to borrow.
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FrankTrollman
post Aug 2 2007, 05:33 PM
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"Need" is a strong word. Back in the days before Street Magic we made our pornomancers with Improved Ability, Kinesics, and Voice Control and we liked it. And people subjected it to the sniff test, and lo sometimes it did not pass and was called broken.

-Frank
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eidolon
post Aug 2 2007, 05:36 PM
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On the note of just being new to the game Aaron Pavao's site has quite a bit of good stuff.

IMO most notably, the Cheat Sheets.
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pestulens
post Aug 2 2007, 06:30 PM
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One quick thing you need to do, find out what (if any) house rules you're GM is using. Contacts especially have been heavily house ruled but many other things are quit common.
As to general advice, get at least 1 extra initiative pass & don't rely on combat drugs to get it. Find out how everyone else is built. In some gropes it is virtually required to specialize to the extreme while others want everyone to be able to do at lest 2 things well. Some groups focus on a certain type of run (extraction, infiltration, destruction, hits ext) while others take a variety of jobs or jobs requiring several different elements. Ether way, since you are entering an established group you should try to find a role you can fill. If there is already a face than another one doesn't add much utility to the group. On the other hand, if the hacker has been talking to Jonson up till now you not only improve payoffs, you present new and exiting ways of dealing with problems through talking to NPCs.

Face concepts that I have fond work well;
the Face dancer. Play a social adept with kinematics, face sculpt, voice & body control. You become the Social Ninja, rather than jumping over the fence you walk in the front door by pretending to be someone who is suppose to be there. When combat starts, get into an advantages position and sit the first round or two out. surprise opponents when that cive starts firing on them from a position they don't get cover against. Focus on electrical or poisoned weapons that disable enemies with one shot.
the Professional. Fast talking and a big sniper rifle. Be in position before anyone else.
the Bergener, A shamen focused on conjuring and social interaction. usually an elf. (actually most of thetas builds are usually an elf.)
I haven't tried a hacker or rigger face but I guess you could make ether work. wouldn't recommend for new players though.
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Whipstitch
post Aug 2 2007, 08:21 PM
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I'd focus on what you -shouldn't- have as much as what you should have. For example, unless you're in a small team that really needs everyone to cover a lot of bases, you probably shouldn't take any restricted/illegal combat cyberware and rarely carry such gear on you. Skillwires, Datajacks, implanted commlinks, Control Rigs, Cybereyes; that kind of thing is usually not a major problem, but for anything of questionable legality or strongly combat oriented I'd suggest sticking with bioware if you take it at all. Talking your way into a secure area can be risky enough without having to explain why you have a streetline special filled with ex-ex when you could have brought along a sensible (and perfectly legal) taser instead. It's a big reason why so many people here are recommending the Social Adept archetype. If the drek hits the fan, you'll probably need to get back with your teammates ASAP anyway, and they can carry your big gun for you if you need it.
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jklst14
post Aug 2 2007, 08:23 PM
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Welcome!

My current character is a Hacker/Face and she's worked out great so far. That being said, it might not be a good choice for someone new to the game. And I agree with the previous posters - talking to the GM and the other players will give you a better idea on how to build your character.

A few things to consider, do you want to play a mundane? An adept? A magician?

Being a Social Adept gives you access to lots of nifty powers that are really great for Faces. A magician can also be a good Face -> especially if you pick a tradition, like Shamanism, that uses Charisma for it's drain stat. For both Adepts and Magicians, you can also pick a Mentor Spirit which gives bonuses to social skills (like Trickster or Seductress).

Mundanes will be cheaper Build Point wise, giving you more room to branch out and take on additional roles. And a combo of Tailored Pheremones and Enhanced Pheremone Receptor adds some nice bonuses.

That being said, you can give a Social Adept some bio/cyber. You might want to ask your GM if you're interested in doing this.

And are you interested in being metahuman? Elves, in particular, make good Faces...

Anyhow, hope that helps.

-JKL




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klinktastic
post Aug 2 2007, 11:55 PM
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Wow! Thanks guys for the overwhelming responses. I do not have the street magic book yet, only the rule book. The Social Adept seems pretty sweet. All of those abilities and what not makes for a pretty sweet deal. Thanks a lot for all of the responses. It seems like faces can work with about any secondary skill.

I am actually going to be playing with dashifen, who is a mod on the boards, so I am about to ask him what his campaign world is like in like 2 seconds.
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toturi
post Aug 3 2007, 01:43 AM
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QUOTE (klinktastic)
Wow! Thanks guys for the overwhelming responses. I do not have the street magic book yet, only the rule book. The Social Adept seems pretty sweet. All of those abilities and what not makes for a pretty sweet deal. Thanks a lot for all of the responses. It seems like faces can work with about any secondary skill.

I am actually going to be playing with dashifen, who is a mod on the boards, so I am about to ask him what his campaign world is like in like 2 seconds.

Post to take note:

QUOTE
"Need" is a strong word. Back in the days before Street Magic we made our pornomancers with Improved Ability, Kinesics, and Voice Control and we liked it. And people subjected it to the sniff test, and lo sometimes it did not pass and was called broken.

-Frank


Post from your GM:

QUOTE
A face character really just needs a decent Charisma and the Con, Etiquette, and Negotiations skills to do his or her job. Since those three are all in the Influence Skill Group, that might be a good place to start, too.

After that, though, you can go anywhere you want. I'm a fan of Hacker/Face builds because you can expand your connections outside of your personal contacts and into the Matrix. Plus, the same Charisma linked skills that you use in the meat-world to talk with people are those you'll use online when you're in a chat room.


Note from myself: A Fichetti 600 + S&S is perfectly sensible and legal too and a lot more powerful than a special with ex-ex.
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Dashifen
post Aug 3 2007, 01:42 PM
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Heh ... I didn't even know it was you until you sent me the PM :D
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NightmareX
post Aug 3 2007, 01:58 PM
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As a face, remember that your greatest strength is social engineering. Need to disrupt yakuza activities (for example) at a particular front building? Hit the college scene and plan a rave at the location...spread the word at every college in town. Need to break up a gang that's causing problems? Spread rumors in the local Humanis or meta (ork/troll specifically) community that this gang is rabidly anti-human/meta and is hunting humans/metas for sport. Need a diversion to sneak into a corp zero zone? Well, it just so happens that this corp is performing unnecessary and cruel animal experimentation and dumping toxic crap into a clean spring onsite, and you just happened to be able to tell the local PETA nuts and environmentalists (and maybe a Greenwar cell) about this and suggest that some protests get held (right outside the corp's doors).

Knowing everybody and being able to con them all is what makes a good face. Being a devious bastard about it is what makes a great face ;)
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Dashifen
post Aug 3 2007, 02:01 PM
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Ha! Those examples remind me of one of my charactrers. Klinktastic: take note. I'd love it if you pull stuff like that. Especially when the groups you engineer find out it was all a rumor and someone leaks that it was you than I get to use the yakuza to ......... never mind

:evil:

Edited to make my English gooder.
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NightmareX
post Aug 4 2007, 08:46 AM
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QUOTE (Dashifen)
Ha! Those examples remind me of one of my charactrers. Klinktastic: take note. I'd love it if you pull stuff like that. Especially when the groups you engineer find out it was all a rumor and someone leaks that it was you than I get to use the yakuza to ......... never mind

Why thank you Dashifen ;) Of course, the inevitability of reprisal is why you have to have lots of good friends to help save your ass, and way high Con and Negotiation skills to make such friends (or con your enemies into not hurting you) 8)
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Rifleman
post Aug 4 2007, 02:41 PM
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QUOTE (NightmareX)
QUOTE (Dashifen @ Aug 3 2007, 09:01 AM)
Ha!  Those examples remind me of one of my charactrers.  Klinktastic: take note.  I'd love it if you pull stuff like that.  Especially when the groups you engineer find out it was all a rumor and someone leaks that it was you than I get to use the yakuza to ......... never mind

Why thank you Dashifen ;) Of course, the inevitability of reprisal is why you have to have lots of good friends to help save your ass, and way high Con and Negotiation skills to make such friends (or con your enemies into not hurting you) 8)

To quote one of my runners, also a face:

"The reason I run the shadows is to find quality bodyguards at bargain basement prices."

Other player: "Really? When did you get bodyguards?"
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