 Mr. Magoo Challenge, Taking down the elderly, SR4 style |
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 Aug 5 2007, 06:31 AM
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#51
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Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686  |
So, to get a force 20 lodge. You can buy 20 force 1 lodge materials. And spend 20 days on 20 seperate rituals to increase the force slowly. Since these runners aren't just starting, I'm assuming they've had 20 days over the course of their 200 karma earning to which they spent making this lodge. |
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Aug 5 2007, 06:35 AM
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#52
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Oh, and as an aside, Mr. Magoo wasn't burning Edge for Hand of God. He was burning Edge for a Critical Success; automatically 4 successes over whatever you needed.
There's also no way the Munchkin Wannabe Squad knows if their ritual succeeded at killing the target, either. Full-on ritual? Mr. Magoo shrugs it off without missing a beat. And unless they attempt to check up on him afterwards (which requires them to get through their wards and security) or just keep going on and on with the ritual multiple times (wracking up ALL that yummy Physical Drain), then mission failed. If they do keep on going (requiring another 7 attempts, minimum, though they have no way of knowing that from a medical record), that makes them a pretty little target for the army of Prime Runners to come and turn them into salsa. Well, unless you're going to metagame and assume you know Mr. Magoo is going to get all those Critical Successes. |
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Aug 5 2007, 06:36 AM
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#53
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
You're paying the difference in cost, not Availability. Upgrading from 19 to 20 still requires Availability 40 ritual materials, they just only set you back a couple hundred nuyen. Note the word "difference" not "just buy Rating 1 lodge materials." It requires a GM making a house rule ("GMs can generalize") otherwise. |
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Aug 5 2007, 06:41 AM
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#54
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Um, I'm not sure that is a legal use of Edge considering that a Damage Resistance Test isn't really an "action" per say.
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Aug 5 2007, 06:44 AM
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#55
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
So, to do this again, real quick... The teams actions are as follows, they get the call for the job, and start work. They rush the test for the symbol, Teamwork test. Have their bound spirits guard so glitches don't matter. Now you get 5 guys with Int + Skill (4 + 6) 10 + Edge on it. To teamwork for the big one. You get 3 hits average, with 2 extra from edge. 5 hits total (you don't need to save edge for glitches, thanks to guard). 5 * 5 = 25.
Main guy goes, with his 10 + 25 for 35 pool. Average of 11 hits. Edge to reroll failures. 24 dice makes 8 more hits. 19 hits vs 16 threshold is done in half a day. Now, they sit down and start their Slay (Human) at Mr. Magoo. We have the 5 assisting magicians. Their dice pool is 9 (skill) + 10 (magic) + 10 (spellcasting focus) + 6 (aid sorcery spirit 1) + 6 (aid sorcery spirit 2) + 2 (mentor spirit) - 6 (symbolic link) For a dice pool of 37. This averages 13 hits. They use edge to reroll 24 dice and get another 8 hits. 21 hits a piece. 21 * 5 = 105 dice pool to the leader. Leaders dice pool is 43 base, because he uses edge to make 6's explode and remove cap on force. Plus the extra 105 dice from the ritual casting. Making his dicepool 148. Averages 48 + 2 hits. (The +2 is for hits gained from edge dice, which bypass the force cap). Half of those are likely to be 6's, and explode. 25 dice. 8 hits average. So we're at 48 + 10 now. Half of those 8 explode, for 4 more dice, and 1 more hit. Total is 48 + 11. If hits are limitted before the test is opposed, we're at 31 hits. If hits are limitted after the test is opposed we're at 59. Whats magoos defense magically? Alternately, the leader could easily spend his edge to "critically succeed" making it at +4 more than Magoo gets. Unless Magoo spends his edge to critically succeed on the opposed test, in which case, I'm not sure what happens? They both succeed? It goes back to how the dice fall, which is 48/20 (depending on when force limits) on the side of the ritual team. So, what are Mr. Magoo's defenses magically? |
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Aug 5 2007, 06:48 AM
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#56
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
2 things funk. One, the casters have the skills needed to find the ritual materials on their own. They are ritual assassins, so this is a pretty big downtime activity on their own. We can make the rolls if you want.
Second: Its an opposed test. What happens if the ritual caster instead spent edge to critically succeed the ritual? When Magoo decides to spend his to critically resist it, what happens? Back to where dice fall? |
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Aug 5 2007, 07:36 AM
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#57
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Target Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 25-July 07 Member No.: 12,354 |
I hope this isn't a sign that all shadowrunners should just be a team of magicians with ritual spellcasting...
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Aug 5 2007, 07:43 AM
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#58
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Naw, although a great "I Win Button" for online debates, the tactic doesn't actually work nearly as good in real table-top play, for example, how exactly does such a ritual team manage to form and then survive for any real length of time? They are quite literally a magical nuke and you can bet there are alot of people who would go to great lengths to keep the genie in the bottle, people still remember the Great Ghost Dance and there are enough immortals floating around to realize the danger that possible Mana Spikes represent.
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Aug 5 2007, 08:30 AM
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#59
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 410 Joined: 5-April 07 From: Vancouver, BC Member No.: 11,383 |
Also, it wouldn't be very fun playing that ritual team of death. Each day the players show up, gm says the fixer calls with the new target, team makes some rolls, calls contacts to verify hit and go back to their respective hideouts. Not a lot a focused team like that can do otherwise. |
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Aug 5 2007, 08:36 AM
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#60
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
It also requires "creative" use of the rules, ignoring the intent, and taking advantage of minor interpretative loopholes. Usually to the detriment of the spirit of the exercise it's being applied to as well.
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Aug 5 2007, 08:55 AM
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#61
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
With an exception of your last very valid and quite excellent point I have to disagree, Ritual Magic has always been protrayed as being really fragging nasty in the fluff so I don't think it being equally nasty in the actual rules is a mistake in any way, with the Great Ritual and Sacrifice Metamagics we are becoming ever closer to being able to reenact the Great Ghost Dance.
Now whether or not that is a good thing is a matter of taste of course. :cyber: |
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Aug 5 2007, 10:19 AM
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#62
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,677 Joined: 5-June 03 Member No.: 4,689 |
*laugh*
Few greater compliments, than to be considered to be worthy of a parody thread. :spin: |
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Aug 5 2007, 11:13 AM
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#63
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
The magician of the team summons and binds an Earth Spirit rating for max services, then goes on an astral quest to learn the sacrifice technique. He subsequently has the team round up dozens of squatters, uses Blood Invoking to get a Blood Earth Spirit with the Quake power, and let's the spirit eat all the squatters, then some Z-rating blocks. Finally, he unleashes Bloodzilla on Mr. Magoo. And we all know there is nothing that can stop Bloodzilla, and you can't hide from him, not even in space. Even dropping a nuke on him will just turn him into Radioactive Bloodzilla. |
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Aug 5 2007, 12:09 PM
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#64
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 831 Joined: 5-September 05 From: LAX, UCAS Member No.: 7,687 |
Piffle. Find yourself a rigger adapted semi and hijack it. Ride the thing (in pilot's chair) right into the mansion, detonate once over the underground lair. Unless it's reinforced like all hell the sheer weight and momentum of collapsing debris and the semi itself will collapse the lair (remember more underground levels equal more weight). Even after burning Edge, Magoo's trapped under the mess - welcome to starvation. Failing that, hijack an airliner from the local airport and slap it into the mansion. Or combine for maximum destruction :D
Not to mention keep from killing each other over trivial differences and personality conflicts (Rule #1 of magic - mages are jerks) :spin: |
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Aug 5 2007, 12:11 PM
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#65
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 325 Joined: 24-February 06 From: Kansas Member No.: 8,304 |
ok this is easy all you need to do is higher two hooks and get a bottle of viagra. If it doesn't killem he will at least thank you for the great night :grinbig:
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Aug 5 2007, 12:13 PM
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#66
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
That sounds cool, I've GOT to buy Augmentation, I can't take it anymore. |
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Aug 5 2007, 12:17 PM
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#67
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 831 Joined: 5-September 05 From: LAX, UCAS Member No.: 7,687 |
Oh, and regarding the Exploding Semi And Plane Of Doom methods, if the bunker IS reinforced well enough to survive, simply hijack a couple more planes or maybe a suborbital, rinse, and repeat.
Or fill the semi with thermite. Happy, happy thermite - cleanse with fire :rotfl: |
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Aug 5 2007, 12:29 PM
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#68
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 831 Joined: 5-September 05 From: LAX, UCAS Member No.: 7,687 |
Further addendum - add a couple of semis full of toxic waste (nasty liquidy type preferably) to the mix. Have a bath Mr. Magoo ;)
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Aug 5 2007, 12:40 PM
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#69
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Mystery Archaeologist Group: Members Posts: 2,906 Joined: 19-September 05 From: The apple tree Member No.: 7,760 |
Does the house have lines for gas? Hell are there gas lines in the area? Send a drone to explore them carrying a small explosive and a tank of oxygen. Blow up the house if you can reach it, have the emergency services dig Magoo out and hit him with multiple snipers.
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Aug 5 2007, 12:46 PM
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#70
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
This looks wicked powerful, but a few things: I can't find the page that says that tests using Edge to get exploding sixes bypasses the force limit to the number of hits for the spellcasting test. As far as I can see, Edge just gives you more dice and the force of the spell still limits the raw hits you can get on the test. With Magic 10, that's a max force 20 with physical drain, so a max of 20 raw hits. Also, I had houseruled that Aid Sorcery from multiple spirits do not stack so those have to be taken out of each ritual member's dice pool. How does the leader have 43 dice (remember no stacking Aid Sorcery)? Since Symbolic link has a threshold of 16, you'll need a force 16 spell just to get 0 net hits. With Magic 10, you'll only be able to cast a force 20 spell, which means a max of 20 raw hits. Say you get all 20 hits (not sure how), and even if I removed the "no Aid Sorcery stacking" houserule, you'd only get 20-16= 4 net hits on the ritual spellcasting test. |
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Aug 5 2007, 12:54 PM
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#71
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
Just as an exercise, I'll allow blood magic (after all, they are a team of assassins willing to murder a helpless old man for money, what do they care what people think?). I'm not sure if Quake will work though with Mr. Magoo's spirits providing Guard on the bunker. |
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Aug 5 2007, 01:08 PM
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#72
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
This is a good one with enough details for me to respond to. Here's what happens. As your truck/plane drone approaches the compound, an arc of lightning suddenly rips through the cargo bay, detonating the explosives. Debris from the vehicle rains down in a 5 block radius. The windows in the mansion get blown out, but the bunker is just fine. Later, a friendly local spirit tells you that it saw a large spirit enter the drone astrally then it must have materialized in the cargo bay and activated its Elemental Attack power. |
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Aug 5 2007, 01:11 PM
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#73
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
No gas lines to the mansion or bunker. |
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Aug 5 2007, 01:17 PM
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#74
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
That doesn't matter, even per RAW (Quake just happens.). Once Bloodzilla has eaten, it has a force in the triple digits (yeah, that means it has a triple digit Edge, too, and is more lucky than Mr. Magoo) and will obliterate anything that is not Bloodzilla. The Quake Power is just an extra for improved special effects. |
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Aug 5 2007, 01:59 PM
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#75
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
I'm pretty sure Quake would be considered a Weapon of Mass Destruction, so the National Guard would be alerted, not just the local Lone Star. Within seconds after detonating the Quake power, teams of Homeland Security combat magi and spirits arrive astrally and swarm Bloodzilla. Bloodzilla honks with rage and the battle ensures. For the full story, see the upcoming simsense flick "Bloodzilla vs the Army". Bloodzilla might get through the bunker's defenses before the army arrives and brings it down, but you don't have to worry about collecting your paycheck, because Homeland Security teams follow the astral trail from the spirit back to its source: your team. |
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