 Bioware As Genetech |
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 Aug 8 2007, 05:24 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 932 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando, Florida Member No.: 1,042  |
I could swear I saw a rule somewhere that bioware systems could be converted to genetech systems by adjusting the nuyen cost. Did I hallucinate? Can anyone give me the page reference? I think it was in AUG.
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Aug 8 2007, 09:55 AM
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#2
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
p. 93, Transgenetic Alteration, Animal Features.
However: No grades... |
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Aug 8 2007, 10:00 AM
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#3
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,650 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 12,328 |
What blocks grades?
Edit oh right I see, bottom of page 87. Edit2: Hey, does anything stop a street sammie from getting synaptic booster III at char gen for 10 points by buying Genetic Heritage? |
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Aug 8 2007, 10:16 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 251 Joined: 29-April 02 Member No.: 2,659 |
Yes, his GM wielding the BBB like a mallet. |
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Aug 8 2007, 10:23 AM
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#5
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,650 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 12,328 |
The hilariousness of this image is high. However, lets replace synaptic booster 3 with, say, superthyriod gland. Which is giving you a mere 30k free and a extra 8 points of availability ;) Not so bad? |
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Aug 8 2007, 12:30 PM
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#6
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
Yes, the Availability 12 cap for chargen. Synaptic booster 2 is ok though. Genetic Heritage is a fantastic discount program. It's nice to have good parents who think ahead. |
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Aug 8 2007, 12:32 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 932 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando, Florida Member No.: 1,042 |
Uh, prides of Messiahs on a raft. That's a significant rule tucked into a hard to find place.
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Aug 8 2007, 12:41 PM
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#8
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
And game designers who don't. :D I'm pretty sure the designers meant Genetic Heritage to apply only to genetech and not bioware-as-genetech. All the genetechs are pretty cheap. I'm sure that's going to be one of the first houserules out there. You can ask it on the Augmentation Q&A so you get an official answer. |
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Aug 8 2007, 12:45 PM
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#9
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
I just want to laugh at the twitchy little kid that has to grow up with an integral synaptic booster.
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Aug 8 2007, 12:56 PM
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#10
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,598 Joined: 24-May 03 Member No.: 4,629 |
Ever read Calvin and Hobbes? :) |
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Aug 8 2007, 01:03 PM
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#11
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
LOL. Give him a double espresso and he'll vibrate right out of the visible universe. |
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Aug 8 2007, 01:12 PM
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#12
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,650 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 12,328 |
Actually the clear winner is the one that means your DNA eats itself at 45k which is entirely co-coincidently the same price as a pain editor. But yeah, hilarious, I should ask. Huge boost to street sammies if you can though, and it doesn't help adepts because the no grades rule still eats their essence. |
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Aug 8 2007, 01:47 PM
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#13
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Actually, he's better off than anyone else who get's it later on. |
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Aug 8 2007, 04:28 PM
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#14
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Note that the rule in question isn't saying "all Bioware is available as Genetech." It's that Animal Features in the form of functional senses available as Bioware can be gained through Genetech as well, such as Cat's Eyes and Echolocation. It's all the same paragraph, not a separate and distinct rule.
But I'm sure that's not going to hold back the "omfg its raw shut up and let me munchkinate" crowd. |
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Aug 8 2007, 09:12 PM
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#15
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Thanks. I was looking for a new 'word of the day'. :D |
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Aug 8 2007, 10:20 PM
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#16
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,650 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 12,328 |
I'm just going to paste the paragraph with each sentence marked which surely falls under fair use laws:
It seems to me that the sentence 3 is what you mean that bioware like synaptic boosters is precluded. However, as 3 references abilities, then 4 says getting functionality requires profound metabolic alterations. Then 5 references functional alterations as requiring biotech, which you can get as a transgenic alteration. It seems a reasonably clear cut -> You cannot use these rules to give yourself cats eyes or sharkskin. However, you CAN get sharkskin buy getting orthroskin with sharkskin mod, and this can be brought as a transgenic alteration. It is not just limited to senses either, per sentence 3 That said any DM can clearly kick your ass to the curb with the undefined 'most' at the start of sentence 5, which if you agree with my reading lets the DM randomly preclude any bioware he feels like. |
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Aug 8 2007, 10:42 PM
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#17
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Paragraphs represent a single thought. You can't split a paragraph up and pick and choose which parts you want to read and ignore everything else; it doesn't work that way. If any Bioware could be taken as Genetech, that would have been spelled out in its own set of rules elsewhere. You really think it's a coincidence that's not the case here? Please.
"omfg its raw shut and let me munchkinate" in all its glory. |
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Aug 9 2007, 04:56 AM
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#18
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
OK, As someone who suggested this early in the augmentation thread, here's the deal: if you allow it, it's totally a house rule. The only thing the rules quoted specifically allows is cosmetic bioware, the kind that only has the effect of making you look freaky.
Honestly, though, that whole trait is bullshit. having a genetic modification done to you in-vitro is awesome, but you should pay for the mod out of your starting funds and just SAY you were born with it. Same game effect, no munchkining, no getting screwed on points for choosing a sub-par ability. Rules wise there's no difference for an in-born genetic mod, so why make it cost different in terms of BP? |
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Aug 9 2007, 05:35 AM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 251 Joined: 29-April 02 Member No.: 2,659 |
Don't forget that to inherit the mod your parents had to have had it done twenty years (or more) ago, meaning it's a couple of generations behind the tech curve. And if you get yourself loaded up with genetech versions of bioware your kids are going to be born with 0.1 Essence and a load of obsolete systems.
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Aug 9 2007, 06:14 AM
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#20
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 |
Erm, they're not a subpar qualities. Genetic heritage is a great way to pick up the equivalent of an exceptional attribute or other nifty ability on the cheap as well as giving a discount to other purchases. If nothing else, Genetic Heritage, Genecrafting and Nano Prototype are nice for people (like me, for instance) who favor maxing out the equipment cap because they let you squeeze more fancy gear under the 50 bp limit in exchange for spending a little extra and a taking a hit to your Quality cap. Don't go bashing the qualities just because some people came to a few wild conclusions and think they can buy Synaptic 3 and a 20% off all Genetech coupon for 10bps. I'm pretty confident there isn't anything particularly out of whack with the qualities themselves, provided you aren't taking the kinds of liberties people here are talking about (and I really do think it takes quite a stretch to say such things are supported by the RAW).
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Aug 9 2007, 08:03 AM
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#21
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Genetic Heritage is a great quality. Not only do you get to start with any genetech treatment of your choosing for free (and no mention is made of an Availability limitation, mind you), but you also get a 20% discount on any other transgenic genetech treatments you want at character creation or beyond. And that does include the animalistic-bioware-implants-as-genetech rule.
That means for the equivalence of 50,000 nuyen (and still leaving you with up to 250,000 nuyen for other gear), you can get the equivalence of Biocompatibility (Adapsin) which is fully compatible with Biocompability or any of the really hot Genetic Infusions such as Sideways or Braveheart. Those are all covered by genetech, which the quality specifically allows. Give me any of those options over starting with a free Synaptic Booster any day. |
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Aug 9 2007, 08:12 AM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 212 Joined: 30-November 04 Member No.: 6,858 |
Adapsin is specifically excluded from being bought at character generation.
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Aug 9 2007, 08:20 AM
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#23
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,650 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 12,328 |
Bah! Basically it comes down to me: Is the fact that a gorilla is really strong a characteristic of that animal? What about the fact a cheetah can run really fast? I, incorrectly perhaps, assumed that it was so. I'd just seen the words 'animal like amendments' and run off with my hair on fire! I disagree with your assessment that I "split a paragraph up and pick and choose which parts you read and ignore the rest" I thought I hadn't done that, and had instead approached the rules holistically with an overview of what is said by taking all the components in their context with each other. Disagreeing with my conclusion is fine, because you have read phenotypic and metabolic in a more informed manner to me. I actually read metabolic as specifically referencing the nervous system (whoops!) but have since looked it up and discovered I was wrong :P I also took your post from the enhanced equipment thread:
as assuming that avaliablity limits did not apply. Something that people in this thread have actually already disagreed with! (See busters previous comments about avalibility when I suggested my hairbrained scheme) - you god damn munchkinate!!! ;) Anyway, as a result of my misinfomation on one or more counts, I naturally reached the potentially incorrect conculsion that synaptic booster was a viable technique. Taking the above and running with it to synaptic boosters III touchdown is totally over the top, but I've never been one to not ask ;) I do hope with my line of reasoning clearly layed down on the table you will ascribe me with marginally less stupid thinking ;) |
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Aug 9 2007, 08:35 AM
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#24
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
There's an Availability 12 for Resources at character creation. There's no such limitation regarding Positive or Negative Qualities, neither of which are Resources -- a specific character creation "category." Qualities are a completely different category with its own rules, none of which have the aforementioned Availability 12 limitation. In fact, the Availibility 12 limitation is specific only to the Gear subcategory of the Resources category (SR4 p. 84).
Anyone who claims otherwise isn't living up the rules as written that they cling to so vehemently when it suits their arguments. See. I can play that game, too. |
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Aug 9 2007, 08:45 AM
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#25
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Granted, the specific rules for Adapsin state they shouldn't be available at character creation. But that text doesn't say that they're not available, just that GMs should restrict it if for some reason -- perhaps such as the one in question in this very thread -- the Availability 12 limitation isn't in play (Adapsin has an Availability of 16 normally). Those rules also say should and shouldn't be. Not must and isn't. Genetic Infusions, however, don't even have that suggested limitation as far as I'm aware. |
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