Spicing up Combat Spells, Or "How to blow more stuff up" Options

[WeaverMount]

New flavor without simple power escalation requires new rules. Can't have it any other way. This meta magic is almost exactly the same size as the two adept meta-magics that let you move your attributes around, both in text size and book keeping overhead. I don't even have to compare it to the meta magics with pages of rules like Ally spirit, Symbolic link, or even Anchoring.

About the Drain first you get to choose the number of hits used to create the matrix so in fact you take completely predictable drain. Assuming you are totally buff but not broken you are likely rolling in the neighborhood of 12 dice (6 magic + 4 arcana + 2 grade) so we are talking about 4 hits so about 8S drain really no that scary. Especially when you consider a combat mage really ought to be able to chuck stun balls and power bolt all day with little to no drain build up.

Do other feel it needs stream lining, tweaking or just isn't workable?

[PlatonicPimp]

Weavermount:

First, what exactly is the point of "etherial elemental effects"? If they don't do the secondary damage of the elemental effect, then they literally do nothing. Oh, sure, your powerball looks like a fireball, but it does exactly what a powerball does for +1 drain.

Frankly, it's too late to change it, but the real issue is that the +2 to drain for elemetal effects jsut isn't worth it. It would have been worth it at +1 drain. But that would require refiguring several drain codes across 2 books, which isn't a viable option for the developers. I suggest house ruling down.

Second, your version of elemenal matrix is way, way to complicated. If you want the character to shine in the astral, just give them astral beacon (You don't need to do that for a spell version, mind you, since sustaining a spell already shows up in their aura.) DOn't make a new similar rule that takes up a paragraph. I wouldn't have it have any effect on non-combat spells, it's just too complex.

The rules must be simple, for two reasons. First, people are going to need to remember them. Second, You're going to have to apply them in a timely fashion to the game. (If you are a publisher, there's also the word count limit to worry about, but that ain't true for house rules.)

I've learned this one by example. If you look in the conversions at the top of this forum, you'll find the cyberware and Adept Power conversions I made when SR4 first came out. Compare those to what was put in augmentation and street magic. Take a close look at how I handled redlining verse how they handled it. Which one would bog down gameplay? Which one practically requires a calculator? Which one has a list of modifiers half a page long? Which one would you rather use?

[DTFarstar]

Ah, I see the per hit used now. You might want to make that more clear, or maybe I'm an idiot. Not as bad as I thought. I might take it as a third or fourth choice as far as metamagics go. Centering, Shielding, Ally Conjuration and Channeling/Invoking are probably top of my list though Absorbtion helps ALOT when fighting enemy magi.


Chris

[WeaverMount]

So I paired it down little bit. Took out the non-com spell part. Reused Astral Beacon exactly. In my games Power vs. Profile is an excellent limiter. I'd like to see a bit more options for trade offs along that axis, so I stick with the large signatures. Players should be able remember there meta-planer quests without difficulty so I feel that mechanic is better than forcing characters to buy a second tier meta-magic multiple times. So the rewrite is...

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Elemental Matrix
A magician who has learned this power can create an elemental matrix around her aura that changes the damage type of all combat spells to type of the elemental matrix. To active this power the magician rolls magic + arcana + initiation grade. The test takes a full combat turn per hit used. The matrix lasts for up to magic minutes or until a number of spells equal to hit used on the initial test are cast. All combat spells deal damage typed according to the type of the elemental matrix.
Creating an Elemental Matrix draws down an aspect of the metaplane associated with matrix's type. This level magical distortion makes the magician leave astral signatures as though they had the Negitive Quality Astral Beacon. The effect stacks with Astral Beacon. In addition excessive manipulation of elemental energies may have reprocutions with local spirits. After the matrix dissolves the magician takes a cumulative 2DV net hit used to build the matrix
A magician need only take this power once, but can only create elemental a matrixes typed after planes they have personal visited via a meta-planer quest.

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Question is it really that complex? To me "Initial Test + Tracking Charges and Duration + Resist Drain" is standard book keeping over head during combat. And the out of combat book keeping is the same as grenading willy nilly, fairly abstract unwanted attention. Do I have a blind spot for my baby some where? I just checked and my word count and book keeping is less an all the meta magics in ST except Channeling, and Great Ritual.

[DTFarstar]

I think it is fine, I mean the language could be cleaned up a little bit, but I am not one to talk there. I usually type by stream of conscious rambling on here so.... blah, but no it looks pretty good. I can actually see me petitioning to take this about 3 initiation grades down the line from now in a game I am playing. (I have Channeling, need Ally Spirit, and at least Centering, preferably shielding too).

Oh, I might make it Magic x 10 minutes. Makes it a little more viable without being long enough to heal off the drain from it.



Chris

[PlatonicPimp]

That seems more effective. The test itself, while complicated, is kinda par for the course with metamagics. You took both of my advices.

I still prefer it as a spell, but then again, who isn't partial to their own ideas?

[Marwynn]

You know, one side-addition to all of this would be a complimentary set of Health/Manipulation spells that would make targets more vulnerable to specific effects. Inflammabe/Conductive/etc. spells that could lower spell resistance, add dice, and so on.

And I agree, Elemental Matrix is nicer as a spell but as a Metamagic it does make more sense. However, it runs into the accessibility issue; it adds a creamy topping to vanilla ice cream, but you have to be an initiate to get that topping? I'm afraid it'll fall by the wayside compared to Masking/Quickening and so on.

I like the additional elemental effects for common spells. The problem there would be limiting it to one spell, but on the other hand you have a spiffier spell overall.

Quite nice.


The only thing that's really missing is a Sustained Area indirect combat spell. And even I think that may be too much.

Or perhaps it doesn't HAVE to be sustained... if Force determined the number of combat rounds the spell would remain active and it dealt Magic damage, it could be viable, right? It could be "permanent" but dissipates in Force turns afterwards. Probably stepping into the realm of Manipulation here though.

[WeaverMount]

You are right about the accessibility. Here is an idea for an interesting albeit radical house rule:
Remove elemental spells altogether and give everyone elemental matrix for free. That way there are 6 main combat spells (Touch+LoS+AoE * Stun + Physical) and once you've been to a metaplane you can then chuck that elemental effect via an EM. That's just how elemental spells work. In my experience players don't take may combat spells because at then end of the day it really doesn't buy them that much. Stun Ball+Power bolt covers 90% of their needs and the idea of spending 5 karma on another combat spell really isn't that appealing. This would make more viable, and accessible. It would also give players the options to sling the marginally useful elemental spells without forcing them to waste karma on a mechanically sub-pare choice. While it may seem broken to give players fire ball, acid ball, and ice ball "for free" the mechanical benefit of having all these spells shrinks exponentially.
Personally, I like mages with and ace up their sleeve that they are really really loath to pull out, and feel like this would work

[EDIT] I know my order of operation is technically wrong, but is much more readable that way