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 A tough team choice! |
 Aug 23 2007, 09:59 AM
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#26
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 219 Joined: 26-April 02 From: Emerald City, Oz Member No.: 2,648  |
Heh, not because it is too powerful.
Hell, a decent grenade launcher can achieve many of the same effects as the mage. No, it's because I would never allow a magic-user who I cannot trust implicitly to participate in a run with a character of mine. A tricked out combat mage with no ties of loyalty to the team can wreak far more havok than a tricked out combat decker. Now I'm not saying a combat decker cannot waste the entire team if he turns on them mid run, but unless the team is Very trusting, he's going to be in the thick of it with them when it goes down. The mage can take out the whole team from a distance without exposing himself to reprisal, and can withdraw from the team midrun at the worst possible time with ease. |
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Aug 23 2007, 11:42 PM
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#27
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
That's what the gist of a lot of this is. |
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Aug 24 2007, 12:44 AM
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#28
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 219 Joined: 26-April 02 From: Emerald City, Oz Member No.: 2,648 |
It's not "Power" that causes me to favour the Decker over the Mage.
I've seen a pair of Sams level a city block, and I know damn well just how powerful the matrix can be in the hands of a competant decker. It's the lack of control I object to. I like to know exactly what my team is capable of. I can check the Decker's deck, his cyberware and his weapons readily enough. How do you check what spells a Mage knows? One team I was on had a Cat Shaman who kept his knowledge of the Mind Probe spell a secret until we discovered him using it on us...a lot. That didn't end well. All said, not got a problem with the mage's power levels, just with the lack of control over him. |
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Aug 24 2007, 12:56 AM
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#29
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
What Decker lets you 'check' or otherwise fuck with their stuff?
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Aug 24 2007, 03:57 AM
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#30
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
Generally the type that has a skilltwitcher and a jackstopper shoved up their datajack, is in plasteel restraints with 2 APDS rounds fired clear through their skull. Anything less and they are holding back on you.
Back On Topic--I'd take the decker unless the mage is willing to leave a ritual sample behind for my friends to take care of while we are inside. Breaking into the middle of an Ares compound without a decker is going to be suicide. Either way, I foresee heavy weapons and smoke grenades, but at least the decker can unlock the doors for you. |
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Aug 25 2007, 02:49 AM
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#31
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Target Group: Members Posts: 56 Joined: 14-August 03 Member No.: 5,492 |
Give me a mage with Control Thoughts.
We drive by club cyberspace looking for an obvious decker type.. mind control him.. and take him on the run with us. :D |
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Aug 25 2007, 04:24 AM
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#32
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 533 Joined: 26-February 02 From: In a hot tub, with lots of bubbles and champagne waiting for you. Member No.: 1,972 |
ya need a hot babe mage for some heretofore unknown reason wears like a bikini as she goes into combat. Also to flirt mercilessly with your own team members when on down time. hots.
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Aug 25 2007, 07:21 AM
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#33
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Target Group: Members Posts: 91 Joined: 25-July 07 Member No.: 12,356 |
When it comes to hawt babes, I always take the Yakuza chicks with the nano tatts, as my team got to see last session. |
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Aug 25 2007, 07:57 AM
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#34
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
If you can check your team's decker's deck, cyber and weapons "readily enough", then you don't need him. If you do not have a mage's spell defense, then any other mage can cast that Mind Probe and you still can't do a thing about it. And since when do you have control over another PC? It is not a lack of control over the mage, but a lack of control over the player. And if you can get control over another player, you'd be a rich man. |
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Aug 26 2007, 12:16 AM
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#35
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 276 Joined: 29-September 02 Member No.: 3,348 |
The most logical reason for Mr. J not even telling you what you're supposed to acquire and sending his own man along is that Mr. J expects his man to be the only one returning with the McGuffin. People are picking the NPC that's easier to geek, because they're going to have to geek the NPC anyway. Which is a mistake, because the NPC you don't take on the Run is going to be part of the group Mr. J has waiting to kill you when you return for payment. Mr. J and his goons plus the Combat Decker is going to be an easier fight than Mr. J and his goons plus the Combat Mage. So I recommend taking the mage. As the old saying goes 'Geek the mage first'. |
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Aug 26 2007, 04:44 AM
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#36
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
Nah, pick the decker. His deck + programs + ware are gonna be worth a lot more than the mages feeble meat body. So when you geek them, sell them for parts, and disappear the decker will give you a step up.
Unless the mage has a lot of foci, of course... |
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Aug 26 2007, 06:00 AM
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#37
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Lesbian Night Ones with SURGE prehensile tails are better still. The decker is more dangerous inside a facility, where he can use all of the facility's many and varied deathtraps against you once your services are no longer needed. |
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Aug 29 2007, 02:45 AM
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#38
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 533 Joined: 26-February 02 From: In a hot tub, with lots of bubbles and champagne waiting for you. Member No.: 1,972 |
hots
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Aug 31 2007, 12:42 AM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 19-May 03 From: In your base eating your food. Member No.: 4,607 |
I choose the toaster shaman. 'Nuff said.
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Aug 31 2007, 03:00 AM
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#40
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 246 Joined: 26-January 06 Member No.: 8,198 |
You're making this into a choice, which with the proper fandangling shouldn't be.
Shaman of the Streets. Full Magician, Computer 6, trode net (at first), then Datajack. Rigger: Preprogramming with computer skill. Hacking: Computer skill, can use Red-12 Hosts for 1,200/day to get -6TN to programming tests (read above) and 12 comp dice. Shamaning: Spirits! Spells! All the worries that Deckers and Riggers have, but none. Granted, you need Robotic Pilots for th Preprogramming, but you might be able to slip a custom vehicle by the Gm with one in it, and there (I can't recall) might be a cheapo vehicle with one at R1 that you can strip out. |
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Aug 31 2007, 03:07 AM
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#41
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Target Group: Members Posts: 91 Joined: 25-July 07 Member No.: 12,356 |
This thread is about which one of the two you'd take with you if you had a choice for the most part. After all, you can't design your friends characters, or the NPCs. If you could only take a mage or a decker it comes down to one or the other. |
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Sep 1 2007, 10:53 AM
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#42
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 19-May 03 From: In your base eating your food. Member No.: 4,607 |
Why not just take parts of both? :D |
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Sep 1 2007, 12:05 PM
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#43
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 219 Joined: 26-April 02 From: Emerald City, Oz Member No.: 2,648 |
What? Hack great steaming chucks off of both of them? Good idea. It may not make your dealings with Mr. Johnson any easier, but your Tanamous contact is going to love you... |
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Sep 1 2007, 12:32 PM
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#44
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 19-May 03 From: In your base eating your food. Member No.: 4,607 |
Well two heads is better than one. ;) |
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Sep 3 2007, 12:08 PM
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#45
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,629 Joined: 14-December 06 Member No.: 10,361 |
For my play style, which is usually quick and stealthy, and especially if breaking into a secretive facility owned by a fraggin' triple AAA, I'd like a Decker so I could actually move through the doors, not get spotted straight away by security cameras, set off alarms and get myself into a whole lot of trouble.
There would probably be the occasional stressful "geek the mage!" or "ARGH SPIRIT! RUN", but I'd still prefer the decker. For the sake of playing and number crunching though, I'd prefer the mage, because you can all play together without having to wait for the GM to play through the Matrix actions with the decker, while everyone else has to lie around and eat pizza. shocking. |
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Sep 4 2007, 07:18 AM
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#46
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 219 Joined: 26-April 02 From: Emerald City, Oz Member No.: 2,648 |
Actually, this is another excellent arguement FOR taking the decker npc. Since there isn't a player attempting these matrix actions, the gm can decide either via simple dice roll or gm's fiat how successful the npc was. Saves a *lot* of time. It's why we usually have a npc decker in most of our games. |
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Sep 4 2007, 05:22 PM
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#47
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,095 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ontari-airee-o Member No.: 1,115 |
That argument can be used for mages that have to do astral overwatch. Or have to banish spirits.
Deckers and mages have completely different roles in a run. It is like comparing apples and oranges. Oranges are better if you are trying to make a screwdriver, apples are better for cider. If the run calls for cider, an orange won't help. GM's that bypass pizza time with NPC deckers are really missing a great element of the game and are usually to lazy to keep the party together. |
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Sep 4 2007, 06:37 PM
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#48
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 219 Joined: 26-April 02 From: Emerald City, Oz Member No.: 2,648 |
We encourage the art of multi-tasking. Eating pizza while rolling dice is a complex operation, and fumbles can be quite entertaining, but the extra half hour of gaming time is well worth the time spent mastering a new skill. |
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Sep 4 2007, 07:44 PM
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#49
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 168 Joined: 6-August 06 Member No.: 9,033 |
whats even harder is taking a bite of pizza and then drinking soda without swallowing the pizza and rolling the dice and then reading them. saves energy, so you only have to swallow once. |
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Sep 4 2007, 09:20 PM
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#50
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
While I agree with the first part of your statement, the second doesn't automatically follow. A lot of times it is the Players themselves who would prefer to have an NPC'ed Decker/Hacker. This is no failing on the part of the GM, and is definitely not a sign of his being 'too lazy'. |
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