 Grounding through Foci, Can you do this in 4th ed |
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 Aug 24 2007, 12:23 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 697 Joined: 18-August 07 Member No.: 12,735  |
Prior to 4th ed... An astral mage could ground a mana spell through a foci.
There's a lot in the Awakened world chapter that talks about casting mana spells at astral targets and that foci are astrally active and that you can cast spells at magical targets.... But I remember grounding spells through active foci in prior editions of Shadowrun... is that still something to be cautious about in SR4? |
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Aug 24 2007, 12:41 AM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 344 Joined: 5-January 05 From: Wherever this piece of meat rests. Member No.: 6,937 |
No, they have not had that rule since 2nd edition I believe. With ritual magic, it is a moot point now. Check out the ritual magic section of the BBB, and some of the sympathetic link metamagic in Street Magic. If you want to reach out and touch a target, it is not out of the realm of possibility. Wear your foci without fear. Just be careful who you share your "precious bodily fluids" with.
:nuyen: :nuyen: :nuyen: |
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Aug 24 2007, 12:54 AM
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#3
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
That's correct. Grounding didn't exist in the SR3 rules. |
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Aug 24 2007, 12:59 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 697 Joined: 18-August 07 Member No.: 12,735 |
This is related then... since Magical Foci are astrally active... Can a non-perceiving mage with a focus have it destroyed by an astral mage with a mana bolt spell? The rules specifically say non-magical/non-living can't be destroyed with a mana spell... but then talk about targeting foci as a separate paragraph. On page 171: Mana spells can only affect living things or entities composed of mana—such as spirits or foci. On Page 174: note that only Physical spells will affect non-living objects; mana spells have no effect Foci are non-living/mana objects... the rules seem to conflict with each other. |
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Aug 24 2007, 01:10 AM
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#5
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Active Foci are indeed valid targets on the Astral.
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Aug 24 2007, 05:15 AM
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#6
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
well, if you want to go with both of those quotes, you can't harm the object, but you can harm the astral form of an active focus. iirc, that disrupts the focus without destroying the physical form of it, though i'm not entirely certain.
of course, once you try to resolve an attack against a focus, you will realise there's some rules missing there i would think... |
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Aug 24 2007, 12:48 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 19-May 03 From: In your base eating your food. Member No.: 4,607 |
When foci are attacked on the astral they shut down. No permanent harm and no grounding thank goodness. We do not have to see those rules again.
My character has 6 foci and can't project nor even perceive astrally. |
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Aug 24 2007, 01:11 PM
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#8
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 31-January 04 From: Reston VA, USA Member No.: 6,046 |
If you hit the astral mage with an AOE spell (manaball), do all his foci shut down? |
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Aug 24 2007, 02:36 PM
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#9
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
Depending on their resistance tests (Forcex2) for each.
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Aug 24 2007, 03:00 PM
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#10
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 31-January 04 From: Reston VA, USA Member No.: 6,046 |
Is just one net success sufficient to shut down the object? Does the force of the spell matter? Does it matter whether the spell is Physical damage or Stun damage?
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Aug 24 2007, 03:00 PM
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#11
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Man Behind the Curtain Group: Admin Posts: 14,871 Joined: 2-July 89 From: End of the Yellow-Brick Road Member No.: 3 |
This to me appears to be another sr4 change, seems to me that in one (or more) previous edition(s) that LOSA when cast in astral space became LOS and lost the AOE component. I do note where it says visible targets are affected.... That presents some interesting opportunities.... |
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Aug 24 2007, 03:04 PM
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#12
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Man Behind the Curtain Group: Admin Posts: 14,871 Joined: 2-July 89 From: End of the Yellow-Brick Road Member No.: 3 |
Not sure about the amount required, but it must be physical. Objects are not affected by stun {sr4pg184}. |
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Aug 24 2007, 03:34 PM
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#13
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Not in any edition that I remember, and I've played them all. :) |
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Aug 24 2007, 04:24 PM
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#14
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Man Behind the Curtain Group: Admin Posts: 14,871 Joined: 2-July 89 From: End of the Yellow-Brick Road Member No.: 3 |
Found it. Second edition. {sr2pg149-150} Mana area of effect spells only.
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Aug 24 2007, 08:23 PM
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#15
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Could you please chuck up a quote of that particular text, Redjack?
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Aug 24 2007, 09:43 PM
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#16
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Man Behind the Curtain Group: Admin Posts: 14,871 Joined: 2-July 89 From: End of the Yellow-Brick Road Member No.: 3 |
Yea but if we digress too far with this, we should start a topic outside of the sr4 forum.
***sr2 rule, not sr4*** A mana spell thrown at a target with such a dual profile, physical and astral, will only affect that target, even if it is an area-effect spell. This was contrasting that an area-effect physical spell would ground out to the physical plane and the area effect would continue onward. *** end sr2 rule*** |
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Aug 24 2007, 10:33 PM
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#17
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
That rule is specific to Grounding itself though, and is not a general rule on how all Area Affect Mana Spells work. Only how they work when used in a Grounding situation against a dual being.
As it does have something to do with Grounding, it is not off-topic. :) |
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Aug 25 2007, 03:26 AM
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#18
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Man Behind the Curtain Group: Admin Posts: 14,871 Joined: 2-July 89 From: End of the Yellow-Brick Road Member No.: 3 |
The rule expresses how area effect mana spells act(ed) in astral space. Mana affect(ed) only the target because they do not pass to the physical for dual natured (including foci). Not wanting to enter into a big debate about rules two versions back, but the example holds true for targets existing just in astral space as well.. The mana spell simply did not pass on in the physical world. It simply differentiates how physical spells ground to the physical plane and continue onward.
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Aug 25 2007, 03:31 AM
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#19
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
There's a reason they ditched it completely.
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Aug 25 2007, 03:42 AM
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#20
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Man Behind the Curtain Group: Admin Posts: 14,871 Joined: 2-July 89 From: End of the Yellow-Brick Road Member No.: 3 |
Yea. Grounding was a quick way to get an team killed... And the ability to destroy active foci while projecting was an expensive prospect for the team's mage. I used to hate when a particularly spiteful mage or spirit would "plink" my foci... or was that me doing that to my players..?
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Aug 25 2007, 04:06 AM
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#21
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I believe we are arguing two different things. My main point is the way Area Effect Mana Spells work in general when cast on the Astral in any edition of Shadowrun. I am saying that if Joe-Bob Neomage casts Manaball on a group of 3 Spirits who are all Astrally Active (only, not Materialized), then that Manaball will affect all of those Spirits (assuming they are all in the AoE). Are you saying anything different? Or is your addendum only in reference to Grounding? |
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Aug 25 2007, 04:49 AM
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#22
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Man Behind the Curtain Group: Admin Posts: 14,871 Joined: 2-July 89 From: End of the Yellow-Brick Road Member No.: 3 |
I am saying that it only affects the target. The spell leaps from the caster, crosses the distance to the target in astral space , and strikes This {creation of a bridge} can only occur if the caster is physically present in physical space. upon impact its energies ground out though the aura of the target and affect {..snip physical..} spiritual component if the spell is a mana spell. A mana spell thrown at a target with such a dual profile, physical and astral, will only affect that target, even if it is an area-effect spell. The spiritual component is contained within the physical component, so the area-effect is dampened. This only holds true for attacks that do not have the physical-physical symmetry requirement. So as you see if either the caster is projecting OR the the target is astrally active the rule applies to mana based spells as there is no physical-physical symmetry. |
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Aug 25 2007, 05:37 AM
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#23
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I can't argue the case effectively, as I no longer have the SR2 books. Suffice to say that I disagree, and that I believe you are correct only in the case of Mana Spells cast in conjunction with Grounding.
But, as that was two editions ago, and as you say, we are now really slipping off the topic, I am willing to agree to disagree and leave it at that. :) |
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Aug 25 2007, 05:58 AM
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#24
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Man Behind the Curtain Group: Admin Posts: 14,871 Joined: 2-July 89 From: End of the Yellow-Brick Road Member No.: 3 |
Cheers!
I probably should have done a core dump of all knowledge of previous editions (correct or not) a long time ago.... :D |
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