 Learning to Ghost Dance, "Change the world: Become a burnout!" |
  |
 Aug 26 2007, 05:01 AM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 609 Joined: 13-August 07 Member No.: 12,615  |
In the secrets of power trilogy, dos'nt the protagonist learn the Dance? I thought he used it to disable the nukes. Howling Coyote said he had to travel to the metaplanes, and learn it from his totem, which he did. He performed the ritual, but it also took away his Gift. BTW, what DID happen to Howling Coyote after this story? I can't remember.
|
 |
 
|
|
Aug 26 2007, 05:05 AM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Howling Coyote, like so many dancers before him, died in ritual.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 26 2007, 05:11 AM
Post
#3
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 609 Joined: 13-August 07 Member No.: 12,615 |
Yeah. The trilogy had a convoluted plot, with spider totems running loose, skinny immortal elves from australia working with elves in TT against Lofwyr, a runner whose sister became a wendigo, said sknny elves stealing nukes, etc....made my head spin.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 26 2007, 05:14 AM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 609 Joined: 13-August 07 Member No.: 12,615 |
I hope this one did'nt create a spike....but even if it did, I suppose Dunks hybrid spirit/cyberzobie will deal with it.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 26 2007, 02:02 PM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,245 Joined: 27-April 07 From: Running the streets of Southeast Virginia Member No.: 11,548 |
Hyz, if HC died in the ritual, then why is there fluff about what he was doing in the NAN and such *after* the ritual?
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 26 2007, 02:54 PM
Post
#6
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 27-May 03 From: Detroit Member No.: 4,642 |
In fact, it did. I believe you should check out Harlequin's Back. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 26 2007, 05:30 PM
Post
#7
|
|||
|
Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
He died. Read the third book in the Secrets of Power Trilogy. But even before that book, there were many rumors about what he was doing, including that he was dead. He died fighting Spider with the shadowrunner Twist. So even though he was now for certain dead, not a whoe lot of people knew that. Sure there were the other people at the second (well, third) Ghost Dance, but a lot of them died too. Could well have been lost in the shuffle (pun intended). |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 26 2007, 05:35 PM
Post
#8
|
|
|
Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Translation: Retcon due to a novel.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 26 2007, 05:37 PM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
hehehe.... suppose it could be. Got dates on which books came first? It never does say in any SB (that I'm aware of at least) that he is for certain alive or dead at any particular time. He dissapeared shortly after the NAN was formed.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 26 2007, 06:16 PM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 524 Joined: 12-April 06 Member No.: 8,455 |
Wait... I thought Ehran *was* Howling Coyote...
Am I getting my conspiracies mixed up again? |
|
|
|
|
Aug 26 2007, 06:22 PM
Post
#11
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 327 Joined: 28-January 06 Member No.: 8,209 |
Yes, I believe you are. According to the novels, Howling Coyote was a native american human. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 26 2007, 06:32 PM
Post
#12
|
|
|
Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
If push comes to shove, and novels contradict game books... I beg you, favor the game books when judging which is 'right'. Please, for all that is holy and right, favor the game books.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 26 2007, 07:31 PM
Post
#13
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 745 Joined: 13-April 07 From: Houston, Texas Member No.: 11,448 |
Street Magic details the great ghost dance as a blood magic ritual that consumed the lives of large numbers of willing awakened channelers. Howling Coyote as the leader probobly didnt die, because someone has to remain alive to finish the ritual.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 26 2007, 08:01 PM
Post
#14
|
|||
|
Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
He didn't die in that Ghost Dance. He died in the other one, which he performed with Twist. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 26 2007, 08:34 PM
Post
#15
|
|
|
Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Coudl've sworn I just said that... *wanders off*
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 26 2007, 09:49 PM
Post
#16
|
|||
|
Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
You did. Some people weren't listening. It is worth repeating, certainly. There are three Great Ghost Dances in SR canon. The first was performed at Wounded Knee on December 29, 1890. It failed miserably due to pre-Awakening mana levels. This corresponds to the real life massacre of 150 Lokota Ghost Dance adherents. (Worlds Without End) The second ended the NAN War of Independence. The third was preformed by Howling Coyote and Twist for the purpose of beating up the Spider Totem. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 27 2007, 04:54 AM
Post
#17
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 524 Joined: 12-April 06 Member No.: 8,455 |
So, short version: Ehran isn't the jerk who almost got us invaded by the Horrors just so he could break up the US and steal a piece for his little magic kingdom?
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 27 2007, 04:57 AM
Post
#18
|
|||
|
Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
No, Thais is the jerk who almost got us invaded by the Horror's because he liked the Native Americans and didn't want to see them slaughtered. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 27 2007, 05:33 AM
Post
#19
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 524 Joined: 12-April 06 Member No.: 8,455 |
There were far better ways of doing that than claiming half the US and declaring war, then firing off world-changing rituals that plant big "COME EAT OUR BRAINS" signs in neon colors on the metaplanes.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 27 2007, 06:00 AM
Post
#20
|
|
|
Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
That's sort of like saying that there were better ways to stop the Holocaust than fighting the Nazis.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 27 2007, 06:10 AM
Post
#21
|
|||
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Maybe not if you are a half-Horror yourself, as Thais is. ;) |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 27 2007, 06:11 AM
Post
#22
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 524 Joined: 12-April 06 Member No.: 8,455 |
Curse you, Godwin!
That analogy might make more sense if you compared it to "there were better ways of stopping the Holocaust than allying with Joseph Stalin to fight the Nazis". Especially since the extermination order, if I remember the timeline right, came out *after* the GGD. The US government (and corps, which were driving a lot of it) in 2015 was guilty of a bunch of nasty things, but genocide wasn't yet one of them. Apartheid *was*, but that can be beaten without putting out the neon signs for the all-you-can-eat buffet for the Horrors. Doesn't mean it wasn't an option--it happened, so clearly it was. It just wasn't necessarily a very *smart* option, assuming that it was primarily or even solely an altruistic one in the first place. Which is partly why I'm questioning the altruism, particularly given what came next. Back to the original topic... I'm still confused on the Ehran/DHC thing... was Ehran really DHC, was there a second "Howling Coyote" that was the subject of the novels everybody's talking about above, or do the novels just flat out contradict the SBs as implied by Adarael? EDIT: Thais=Ehran? |
|
|
|
|
Aug 27 2007, 06:14 AM
Post
#23
|
|||
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Thais = Aina's half-Horror son. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 27 2007, 06:16 AM
Post
#24
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 524 Joined: 12-April 06 Member No.: 8,455 |
Ahh... does he factor into GGD, or did I just present an easy target there? :)
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 27 2007, 06:16 AM
Post
#25
|
|
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Keep in mind that Thais originally taught the Native Americans the Ghost Dance at Wounded Knee way back in 1890. It just didn't work that time as the Mana level was not high enough then.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 14th June 2025 - 04:36 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.