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> Learning to Ghost Dance, "Change the world: Become a burnout!"
Big D
post Aug 27 2007, 06:22 AM
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eeeeenteresting.
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apple
post Aug 27 2007, 06:26 AM
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QUOTE (hyzmarca)
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0 @ Aug 26 2007, 03:34 PM)
Coudl've sworn I just said that... *wanders off*

You did. Some people weren't listening. It is worth repeating, certainly.

There are three Great Ghost Dances in SR canon.

The first was performed at Wounded Knee on December 29, 1890. It failed miserably due to pre-Awakening mana levels. This corresponds to the real life massacre of 150 Lokota Ghost Dance adherents. (Worlds Without End)

The second ended the NAN War of Independence.

The third was preformed by Howling Coyote and Twist for the purpose of beating up the Spider Totem.

#4 was the German troll kingdom ghost dance for liberty, performed to achieve independence by ... trolls. Many trolls. At least in "Deutschland in den Schatten 2". IIRC it was during the 2040s.

SYL
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Fortune
post Aug 27 2007, 06:36 AM
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Ye Gods! :eek: :please:
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NightmareX
post Aug 27 2007, 08:12 AM
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QUOTE (Adarael)
If push comes to shove, and novels contradict game books... I beg you, favor the game books when judging which is 'right'. Please, for all that is holy and right, favor the game books.

Most of the time the two can be reconciled with....minimal mental gymnastics ;)
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NightmareX
post Aug 27 2007, 08:17 AM
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QUOTE (apple)
#4 was the German troll kingdom ghost dance for liberty, performed to achieve independence by ... trolls. Many trolls. At least in "Deutschland in den Schatten 2". IIRC it was during the 2040s.

Weellll, there's a reason to be glad I don't speak/read German. :please:
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Ancient History
post Aug 27 2007, 12:09 PM
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Was that before or after the Hawai'ian Kahunas held their Ghost Dance?
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NightmareX
post Aug 27 2007, 12:33 PM
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QUOTE (Ancient History)
Was that before or after the Hawai'ian Kahunas held their Ghost Dance?

I doubt the ritual in House of the Sun can be technically called the Great Ghost Dance, especially if it was based on Hawaiian shamanism. The novel doesn't really give enough info to make that determination, but it's my guess that it was a different but similar ritual.
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Blade
post Aug 27 2007, 12:40 PM
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Was that before or after the Ghost Dance was introduced as the hip dance in clubs all around the world? :spin:
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NightmareX
post Aug 27 2007, 12:49 PM
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Heh, good one ;)
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Draconis
post Aug 27 2007, 01:46 PM
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QUOTE (Blade @ Aug 27 2007, 12:40 PM)
Was that before or after the Ghost Dance was introduced as the hip dance in clubs all around the world? :spin:

Ya no kidding. How many times do you have to use the ultra super power ritual attack before it becomes a cliched joke?

"I'm gonna ghost dance and get that fast food monkey at the Taco Temple because he got my order wrong. No nachos, that dude is toast."

Oh and on a side note about brain hurting novels, Frank and I still laugh at the idea of doing metaplanar quests in the middle of combat.
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neko128
post Aug 27 2007, 02:04 PM
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QUOTE (Big D)
There were far better ways of doing that than claiming half the US and declaring war, then firing off world-changing rituals that plant big "COME EAT OUR BRAINS" signs in neon colors on the metaplanes.

I have to assume that the folk who actually performed the GGD didn't know they were planting neon signs pointing at Earth saying "EAT ME". That knowledge has been fairly closely held for a long time. In fact, in 2070, after several close calls, it still isn't general knowledge...
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toturi
post Aug 27 2007, 02:17 PM
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QUOTE (neko128)
QUOTE (Big D @ Aug 27 2007, 12:33 AM)
There were far better ways of doing that than claiming half the US and declaring war, then firing off world-changing rituals that plant big "COME EAT OUR BRAINS" signs in neon colors on the metaplanes.

I have to assume that the folk who actually performed the GGD didn't know they were planting neon signs pointing at Earth saying "EAT ME". That knowledge has been fairly closely held for a long time. In fact, in 2070, after several close calls, it still isn't general knowledge...

For some reason, I keep hearing the Governator's voice. :D
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Big D
post Aug 27 2007, 02:40 PM
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I doubt they did. The point is, if Ehran=DHC, then *he* knew, and led them into it anyways.
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fistandantilus4....
post Aug 27 2007, 08:35 PM
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Ehran wasn't Daniel Howling Coyote. He was busy being someone else at the time anyway. And Howling Coyote is dead. Ehran isn't. Not in the sense of "faked his death " dead. Dead dead.
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Big D
post Aug 28 2007, 12:47 AM
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O.K., so the old SB I'm vaguely remembering was just throwing out a red herring... next, you'll tell me that Damien Knight isn't David Gavilan. :)
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Zhan Shi
post Aug 28 2007, 02:42 AM
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In Aztlan, at least one of the posters makes clear that they should find out who taught Coyote, and kill him. If Ehran had been Danny, I think the other IEs/GDs would know it. And if they knew it, Ehran would be passing through Lofwyr's bowls, or killed by Harlequin (after all, H was forced to clean up the "spike" mess). But I have not read through all the novels or sourcebooks, so I could be missing something.
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NightmareX
post Aug 28 2007, 07:46 AM
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QUOTE (Big D)
O.K., so the old SB I'm vaguely remembering was just throwing out a red herring... next, you'll tell me that Damien Knight isn't David Gavilan. :)

Which sourcebook are you referring to?
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neko128
post Aug 28 2007, 01:20 PM
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I also would thing that Ehran wouldn't be stupid enough to cause a spike. I mean, he's just as terrified of the Horrors as most of the other immortal elves...
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hobgoblin
post Aug 28 2007, 01:48 PM
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well if it can enable the creation of a second elven state, why not roll out the magical WMD's?

hmm, thinking of the ghost dance that way makes me wonder about how trigger happy the natives are...
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Big D
post Aug 28 2007, 04:49 PM
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QUOTE (NightmareX)
QUOTE (Big D @ Aug 27 2007, 07:47 PM)
O.K., so the old SB I'm vaguely remembering was just throwing out a red herring... next, you'll tell me that Damien Knight isn't David Gavilan. :)

Which sourcebook are you referring to?

Can't remember offhand; it's one of the older books. Somebody actually posted a pair of side-by-side pictures (in the book), together with the claim that Ehran=DHC. The rest was all Clark Kent/Superman timeline speculation.
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MITJA3000+
post Aug 28 2007, 05:18 PM
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QUOTE (Big D)
Can't remember offhand; it's one of the older books. Somebody actually posted a pair of side-by-side pictures (in the book), together with the claim that Ehran=DHC. The rest was all Clark Kent/Superman timeline speculation.

You're probably thinking about Tir Tairngire Sourcebook. And it wasn't Daniel Howling Coyote, it was Walter Brightwater. Or Bright Water. Damn those native names.
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SonofaSailor
post Aug 30 2007, 10:30 PM
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QUOTE (NightmareX)
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Aug 27 2007, 07:09 AM)
Was that before or after the Hawai'ian Kahunas held their Ghost Dance?

I doubt the ritual in House of the Sun can be technically called the Great Ghost Dance, especially if it was based on Hawaiian shamanism. The novel doesn't really give enough info to make that determination, but it's my guess that it was a different but similar ritual.

I'm pretty sure it was a GGD. Also in that same book, they reveal that the kahunas used a similiar ritual ( read GGD ) to combat the UCAS troops station in Hawai'i. This was followed by the Pacific Fleet being recalled to Hawai'i and the Corps firing a Thor shot across thier bows, so to speak.

So it appears that have been a few GGDs since the Awakening...
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fistandantilus4....
post Aug 30 2007, 10:34 PM
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Great big magical ritual does not a Great Ghost Dance make.
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Draconis
post Aug 30 2007, 10:35 PM
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Ah yes the great ghost dance. It's just a jump to the left, then a step to the right.... :D
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fistandantilus4....
post Aug 30 2007, 10:45 PM
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'cause that's what it's all about!
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