Emergence Review - Dumpshock Forums

Emergence Review, Is it good?

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mfb

Aug 28 2007, 03:40 PM

Post #101

Immortal Elf

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QUOTE (JesterX)

I can't wait to see what happened to him ^_^

he shows up in Emergence (Dr. Shalberham or something), and his work shows up in Augmentation (cyborgs, biodrones).

QUOTE (Demonseed Elite)

Any fiction writer serves the story ahead of realism.

that's only true until the lack of realism begins intruding on the readers' ability to enjoy the story. which is one of the complaints here.

TW

Aug 28 2007, 03:50 PM

Post #102

Moving Target

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QUOTE (JesterX)

Who else worked on it?

*Now I have to put some money aside so that my wife won't blame me for purshasing yet another SR sourcebook*

Have a look at this official Emergence preview, even while a few sections were blacked out for spoiler reasons, this should give you some more information, including the list of authors and contributors (read: the ones to blame).

knasser

Aug 28 2007, 04:06 PM

Post #103

Shadow Cartographer

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QUOTE (Buster)

I mean, the premise of The Matrix was ridiculous too (robots have fusion reactors and geothermal energy but really need humans instead as power sources), but it worked because we were already sucked into the movie...

Ha! Not when we went to see it. The whole group I was with started going "What? Are they joking?" to each other. And I know from talking afterwards that two of us were actually thinking it was deliberate and that Morpheus was setting up some trick or something. It's a rare Keanu Reeves film where the plot is less convincing than his acting.

edrift101 View Member Profile	Aug 28 2007, 04:32 PM Post #104
Target Group: Members Posts: 48 Joined: 2-June 07 From: Minneapolis, MN Member No.: 11,809	I finally got my hands on a physical copy of the book and it's really interesting. I love the way it was written and I'll be using all of the information in my campaign (hopefully, my players haven't read the book...). That said, I do think that the cover stock seems cheap and flimsy compared to SR previous books.

Demonseed Elite

Aug 28 2007, 04:45 PM

Post #105

Neophyte Runner

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QUOTE (mfb)

that's only true until the lack of realism begins intruding on the readers' ability to enjoy the story. which is one of the complaints here.

I realize that, but how much of that is personal taste and how much of that is really a flaw with the work?

I dislike romantic comedies and their sappy melodrama impacts my ability to enjoy watching them, but that doesn't mean a particular romantic comedy is a flawed work. It may be flawed for other reasons, but my personal tastes aren't one of them.

knasser

Aug 28 2007, 05:07 PM

Post #106

Shadow Cartographer

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QUOTE (Demonseed Elite)

I dislike romantic comedies and their sappy melodrama impacts my ability to enjoy watching them, but that doesn't mean a particular romantic comedy is a flawed work. It may be flawed for other reasons, but my personal tastes aren't one of them.

And I always had you down as such a big Julia Roberts fan, DE. :D

Buster

Aug 28 2007, 05:15 PM

Post #107

Running Target

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QUOTE (Demonseed Elite)

QUOTE (mfb @ Aug 28 2007, 10:40 AM)

that's only true until the lack of realism begins intruding on the readers' ability to enjoy the story. which is one of the complaints here.

I realize that, but how much of that is personal taste and how much of that is really a flaw with the work?

I dislike romantic comedies and their sappy melodrama impacts my ability to enjoy watching them, but that doesn't mean a particular romantic comedy is a flawed work. It may be flawed for other reasons, but my personal tastes aren't one of them.

But doesn't that come down to knowing (or rather choosing) your audience?

Dashifen

Aug 28 2007, 05:26 PM

Post #108

Technomancer

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QUOTE (knasser)

QUOTE (Buster @ Aug 28 2007, 03:21 PM)

I mean, the premise of The Matrix was ridiculous too (robots have fusion reactors and geothermal energy but really need humans instead as power sources), but it worked because we were already sucked into the movie...

Ha! Not when we went to see it. The whole group I was with started going "What? Are they joking?" to each other. And I know from talking afterwards that two of us were actually thinking it was deliberate and that Morpheus was setting up some trick or something. It's a rare Keanu Reeves film where the plot is less convincing than his acting.

I thought it was believable. Then again, I liked the Core, too :)

BishopMcQ View Member Profile	Aug 28 2007, 05:50 PM Post #109
The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910	I read Emergence cover to cover on my flight home from GenCon. Overall, I enjoyed the writing and the structure of the chapters. Were there moments when I stopped and asked myself why the developers turned right when I thought we should all go left? Yes. Taking the image as a whole, especially when I start building some of the connections between previous books and a few conspiracy theories builds a richer and deeper model than just tearing apart one small piece of the world. As has been said above, humanity can be driven by fear and terror to do things that are completely irrational. In the Longue Duree, history gets revised, atrocities are downplayed to allow us to move on, and we find a newer better reason to hate and kill each other. For me Emergence and the events within will flavor the campaign, TMs who are very open about their specialness will be looked upon with the gamut of reactions from hate-mongering to skepticism to respect. Eventually the tide will turn, and we'll find a new fad to latch onto once the TMs acclimate. The witchhunts will become another Night of Rage, something people feel bad about and promise that they will never repeat, but it doesn't change the future. As far as, everyone in the world hating TMs, remember that we are shadowrunners. By being outside the system, and having seen the rose-colored lenses for what they are, we examine how much of the newsfeeds we accept as fact. I'd imagine that the shadow community is probably as equally divided as Jackpoint. It takes all types, but most of us aren't the sheep to be driven by the terror...or at least not this time around. Maybe next time, our personal buttons will get pushed.

Mal-2 View Member Profile	Aug 28 2007, 06:02 PM Post #110
Target Group: Members Posts: 93 Joined: 9-December 03 From: Greenville, SC Member No.: 5,889	I finally picked up a hardcopy of Emergence at Gencon and finished reading it last week. I liked it a lot. I found the populace-at-large's reactions to the revalations to be in line with Shadowrun history, if not with reality. Shadowrun's civilian population has always reacted to scary new things by going crazy. There's a huge laundry list, but just for starters: VITAS, UGE, the Awakening, the emergence of dragons, the schism of the US, Goblinization, VITAS 2, the Crash, the Night of Rage, bug spirits, the arcology shutdown, Crash 2.0, and now technomancers and AIs. I thought the sequence of events in the book made sense in that context, and looked like a lot of fun to either play or run a game in. It is too bad that this book didn't come out sooner, as it would have given a neat backdrop for the first year or two of SR4 games.

Zhan Shi View Member Profile	Aug 28 2007, 06:16 PM Post #111
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 609 Joined: 13-August 07 Member No.: 12,615	Jester: Yes, he's in Emergence. Halberstam (or however you spell it) was working for a corp (Neonet? I forget exactly). I think it was a "student" of his who was running that nasty clinic in hong kong, and was killed in the TM breakout. There's a whole plot thread about him trying to cover the tracks. But read the book; it's been awhile, and my memory of the specifics may be faulty.

Demonseed Elite

Aug 28 2007, 06:32 PM

Post #112

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QUOTE (Buster)

But doesn't that come down to knowing (or rather choosing) your audience?

It does, yes. When you do drift away from realism for the benefit of the story, you want to make sure you're doing so in a way consistent with the setting.

The idea of technomancers in general skirts that line for me, personally. But nothing specific to Emergence seems outlandish for the setting, to me.

BishopMcQ View Member Profile	Aug 28 2007, 06:35 PM Post #113
The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910	Halberstam's truth, spoilered for those who don't want to know... [ Spoiler ] Halberstam was working in HK and doing fun atrocities to TMs and victims of AIPS. He was lured into an extraction at the same time that the technomancers escaped into Hong Kong. The remorseless bastard apparently didn't learn from his early otaku experiments and is still breaking minds and tearing apart braincells. There is evidence of a huge PR spin, as the technomancers are blamed for the terrorism even though it was a corporate team behind the demolitions and everything else.

Synner

Aug 28 2007, 07:10 PM

Post #114

Runner

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I'll get to replying to other posts later tonight...

QUOTE (Buster @ Aug 28 2007, 05:15 PM)

But doesn't that come down to knowing (or rather choosing) your audience?

Since you bring up "knowing your audience", and given that the same naysayers seem to be as vocal on this thread as the previous one, I thought I might as well pimp my book and put those reviews into perspective by quoting some the numerous positive opinions of Emergence as written:

QUOTE (Mal-2)

I finally picked up a hardcopy of Emergence at Gencon and finished reading it last week. I liked it a lot.

QUOTE (BishopMQ)

I read Emergence cover to cover on my flight home from GenCon. Overall, I enjoyed the writing and the structure of the chapters.

QUOTE (edrift101)

I finally got my hands on a physical copy of the book and it's really interesting. I love the way it was written and I'll be using all of the information in my campaign (hopefully, my players haven't read the book...).

QUOTE (Zhan-Shi)

Having said that, the book itself was an interesting read, and gave many good ideas for adventure hooks.

QUOTE (Malachai)

I think the fear and panic from Technomancers is very in-keeping with establish SR history.

QUOTE (Bibliophile20 (original review thread))

Personally, I happened to like it a great deal, but, again, that's a matter of personal taste.

QUOTE (Dashifen (original review thread))

I have to say that I enjoyed reading it thouroughly. I remember reading System Failure in one sitting and I did the same with Emergence. I was truly entertained and, at times, made uneasy by the actions in the story.

QUOTE (Samantha (original review thread))

Joe Shmoe is scared. If you look at one of the posters on Jackpoint (Not naming names, start with a C, ends with lockwork), you can see just what they fear. They fear something that might be related to the Crash, maybe even caused it. Just like the witchhunts of old, people are afraid of what they can't understand, and therefore much BURN IT! BURN IT TO HELL!

QUOTE (Sterling (original review thread))

My review of Emergence is glowingly positive. They present a fictional world event that somewhat mirrors our current real life situation. After some very world-shaking incidents, we have to realize that some members of a group do not necessarily represent that entire group. And the fiction portion of it is a fantastically good read.

QUOTE (Arab One (original review thread))

When I pick up a book like Emergence, I do so for two reasons.
1) To be entertained. This it succeeded at. As a book to read and become imersed in the story, it is well written.
2) To use in my game.For me it succeded at this.

Dizzman View Member Profile	Aug 28 2007, 07:17 PM Post #115
Target Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 25-March 07 Member No.: 11,306	Even though I posted on my experience earlier - I will add that the book is very well written and I did like the format (i.e. most of what I've read is set as a conversation on ShadowSea).

Rotbart van Dain...

Aug 28 2007, 07:23 PM

Post #116

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QUOTE (Synner)

Since you bring up "knowing your audience", and given that the same naysayers seem to be as vocal on this thread as the previous one, I thought I might as well pimp my book and put those reviews into perspective by quoting some the numerous positive opinions of Emergence as written:

Heh. Even I stated that I liked Emergence better than System Failure.

knasser View Member Profile	Aug 28 2007, 07:39 PM Post #117
Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636	I think with all this copy and pasting, we might as well just link to the original thread. The first Emergence review was this.

Moon-Hawk

Aug 28 2007, 09:10 PM

Post #118

Genuine Artificial Intelligence

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QUOTE (Synner)

QUOTE

QUOTE (Synner)

As long as technomancy isn't played up in the campaign - and it shouldn't be since SR4 describes it as exceedingly rare

..rare like magic? People playing TMs openly to the team?

No, SR4 especifically says technomantic expression is rarer than magic (Emergence says its much rarer but doesn't go into figures either).

Hehe, there's that word again: "especifically". I love it. :)
Okay, I'm really not trying to be an ass here, but I'm searching SR4 and I can't find where it especifically says how rare they are; in comparison to magic or otherwise. Can I get a page ref? All I can find is page 232 which talks about how they're the next generation of Otaku, and that rumors and reports have cohered and that there is no doubt that there was a new generation of Otaku.

QUOTE (SR4 pg 232)

It took several years for the new rumors and reports to cohere, but undoubtedly something was different. A new generation of otaku had been born

It also talks about how scientists and magicians are baffled as to how their abilities work.
I can't find anything about how rare they are, and that section seems to be saying that people already know about them.

Buster

Aug 28 2007, 09:36 PM

Post #119

Running Target

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QUOTE (Synner @ Aug 28 2007, 02:10 PM)

Since you bring up "knowing your audience", and given that the same naysayers seem to be as vocal on this thread as the previous one, I thought I might as well pimp my book and put those reviews into perspective by quoting some the numerous positive opinions of Emergence as written:

Ah, I noticed that a lot of them mentioned System Failure. I never read anything from SR3 and I don't even know what System Failure is. That's probably the source of my confusion because Emergence seems to be assuming that the audience experienced System Failure. I started in SR4 and don't know anything about that stuff (I read SR2 decades ago). Emergence almost seems like an SR3 book set a few years before SR4 because (as moon hawk mentioned) in the SR4 core book everyone seems to know what a technomancer is and there's no mention of them being hated or blamed for anything. In fact, the entire Crash seems to have blown over by SR4.

Maybe if the Crash had occurred in Emergence and technomancers were introduced there instead of the core book, and everyone knew it was AI-engineered technomancers that caused the Crash, it all would have made more sense. Something to keep in mind for SR5 I guess.

Ancient History View Member Profile	Aug 28 2007, 09:39 PM Post #120
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935	That made very little sense. Was there any part of the book you did like?

Buster

Aug 28 2007, 09:40 PM

Post #121

Running Target

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QUOTE (Ancient History @ Aug 28 2007, 04:39 PM)

That made very little sense. Was there any part of the book you did like?

That was helpful. Thanks for the vague pot shot. I thought you were above that kind of thing.

Rotbart van Dain...

Aug 28 2007, 09:44 PM

Post #122

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QUOTE (Ancient History)

That made very little sense.

In fact, it is amusing that even somebody who did not read System Failure is suggesting that Emergence should have merged/doublefeatured with it...

Fortune View Member Profile	Aug 28 2007, 09:45 PM Post #123
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486	System Failure is basically the Crash 2.0 book. While it was released under SR3, it should really be considered an SR4 release.

Fortune View Member Profile	Aug 28 2007, 09:46 PM Post #124
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486	I know what I have to say is important, but I didn't think it was worth repeating this soon.

Ancient History View Member Profile	Aug 28 2007, 09:47 PM Post #125
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935	Dude, read your last sentence and tell me you were going for a logical train of thought. Now I know you've been down about Emergence, and you know people disagree with you and you get flak for that, so all I'm asking is: was there any of it you did like? Hell, when I read a book, even a book I don't enjoy, I can still appreciate characters that were particularly well done, or neat twists of phrase, or a decent description. It tends to add a bit to your overall review if you can give the good with the bad.

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