Technomancer Flavor, What do you do? |
Technomancer Flavor, What do you do? |
Aug 30 2007, 04:38 PM
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#1
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 834 Joined: 30-June 03 Member No.: 4,832 |
I was thinking today about how little flavor there is to TM's, as presented in SR4, they're practically just a set of rules. Not really any fluff or even fluff to take from examples, and they seem pretty well divorced from otaku from SR3. I haven't read emergence yet, so I'm hoping it will give some idea of what they're about but I wanted to get your guys' stories about TMs.
So if you include them in your game, what do you do to give them some personality? I did a few things in my game, I had a streetlamp talk to the TM in my game, gave him a hint about some one who walked by the motion sensor in the lamp post. I also had him spot a sprite is his bowl of alphabits cereal. What kind of flavor have you done for TMs? |
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Aug 30 2007, 04:46 PM
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#2
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Emergence will tell you lots and lots about what other people think about technomancers. As for real flavor for the VKs ('cause virtuakinetic is way cooler than technomancer) there is some, but not as much as I would have liked. |
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Aug 30 2007, 04:51 PM
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#3
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...I usually use Mrs. Dash to bring out the most flavour in TMs. Sometimes though it requires something a bit more robust which is when I break out the Tobasco. :grinbig:
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Aug 30 2007, 04:58 PM
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#4
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 |
Well, the BBB does have Submersion and the Resonance Realms. Sprites are also entities with their own "thoughts" so that should give you lots to explore right there.
A TM in my group kept compiling a Fault 6 sprite so I had the same one show up all the time in the guise of Duke Nuke'm and he rapidly became a favorite. I tend to play Courier sprites as the UPS Guy from the old Mad TV skits. I also ran a "Resonance Quest" once to the Realm of Archives and Data Sprites. That was sort of cool. Bascially RPed the TM following the Data Trail "as it happened." Our group also toyed around with the idea of Resonance Quests to grab blue prints for the latest SOTA gear. The thinking was that if it is stored on the Matrix ANYWHERE then it should be in a Resonance Realm somewhere. There's also the old Otaku stuff to explore. Otaku used to run in tribes or gangs and I cold see TMs acting the same way. There were also places called Resonance Wells where the Otaku could contact the Deep Resonance directly. I'd imagine there'd still be places like that on the Matrix. BTW they were usually off the Grids, sort of in the Deep Matrix. |
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Aug 30 2007, 05:07 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 834 Joined: 30-June 03 Member No.: 4,832 |
I'll have to try and get a copy, that and augmentation, but since I'm not in an active game right now, they're pretty low pri. For me, I like to think of TM's as people who can't turn off the noise, totally Schizoprenic. That they may go into a store and hear toasters gossiping about blenders. They're not sure if the toasters are really talking, no one else ever hears it, but they do. Some one who sees to another level in reality, or has convinced themselves that they do and make up a reality to go behind the current one. |
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Aug 30 2007, 05:13 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 19-May 03 From: In your base eating your food. Member No.: 4,607 |
Damn, beaten to the punch for once. ;) Oh well great minds and all. Our group generally eliminates all Technos with extreme prejudice. I think they're a lame idea, but we'll see where they take it. |
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Aug 30 2007, 09:10 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 834 Joined: 30-June 03 Member No.: 4,832 |
Yeah, thats the general consensus, I used to pretty much be opposed to them too. But the more I thought about the reasons, it was just because the rules were weak and that there was no flavor. Like dried ramen with out the "flavor packet", utterly devoid of personality. So what can you think of to give them any interest? |
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Aug 30 2007, 09:16 PM
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#8
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...must....practise....restraint....
ooooh donuts.... |
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Aug 30 2007, 09:24 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 633 Joined: 23-February 06 Member No.: 8,301 |
That's interesting. The term technomancer has definitely suffered from some overuse in a bunch of RPGs, but I liked that this use of the word is actually very accurate. The term literally means "someone who communicates with technology", and that is exactly what techonomancers do in SR. |
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Aug 30 2007, 09:28 PM
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#10
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
But anything that ends in "mancer" has a magical connotation, and they already have plenty of that from the rules, as it is. To me, "technomancer" sounds more fantasy, and "virtuakinetic" sounds more cyberpunk. It's not about the accuracy of the term, it's about baggage, (mine as well as the word's) |
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Aug 30 2007, 09:43 PM
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#11
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
Watch it ... that's what they call my wife!! :P 8) |
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Aug 30 2007, 10:57 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 19-May 03 From: In your base eating your food. Member No.: 4,607 |
I hate when there's no flavor packet. I want my spicy beef flavor!! Anyway..uh what would I do to generate interest? Hmm I think I'd write a book called Unwired and insert all the rules fixes and fluff that wasn't in the base book. Pretty good idea huh? :P Seriously though the idea needs polishing. Technos need to be "spun" in a certain manner. Let's use a metaphor for all you following along at home. Hackers use technology extremely well. They're the fishermen of the matrix, they go out every day and cast their datanets and bring in some juicy bytes. Technos live in the oceans of info, they're the dolphins of the matrix. They have to make an effort to ignore the data swirling around em. Squeee! Ahem, sorry. There better be talking toasters in there. My character already gets advice from his coffee machine and our soda vending machine delivers drugs for us. |
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Aug 31 2007, 12:31 AM
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#13
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...good one...:rotfl: |
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Aug 31 2007, 12:46 AM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 834 Joined: 30-June 03 Member No.: 4,832 |
I guess so, Too bad unwired is so far out on the time frame. |
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Aug 31 2007, 06:49 AM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 19-May 03 From: In your base eating your food. Member No.: 4,607 |
Look at it this way, at least there is a time frame. |
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Aug 31 2007, 07:11 AM
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#16
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
One game I'm doing has a technomancer plotline going on. The players really overanalyze things a lot, and it forced me to come up with a technomancer paradigm. It's actually worked pretty interestingly so far.
Here's the deal:
For technomancers to be viable and interesting they have to do something that's really distinct from Hackers. As presented in the main book they are basically just people who save thousands of nuyen by paying hundreds of karma. So what I've done is made them inherently "connecting" to devices and information storage around them. Technomancers are easy to beat up in Matrix combat, but havig them be able to remote operate devices that aren't set up to accept remote operation is just out there enough that it grabs the imagination. And I think it's a virtually required conceit, because if technomancers "just" send out a radio signal everyone is going to switch to Bluetooth and TMs are going to vanish. -Frank |
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Aug 31 2007, 09:15 AM
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#17
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Target Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 9-June 06 From: Oxford, UK. Member No.: 8,687 |
Neo comes to mind with your take on TMs (the end of Revolutions at the very least).
It's just a shame that the mechanics are so lame - TMs are a great concept, and an awesome idea, but who would want to play them as they are ? |
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Aug 31 2007, 03:41 PM
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#18
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Actually I haven't seen Matrix-3. As it was, I saw Matrix 2: Electric Boogaloo for free and it was so bad that I wanted my money back. I swore a mighty oath that the Matrix franchise would not receive my precious time unless scouts came back gushing with praise. And well... that really hasn't happened, has it?
That's the biggie. TMs have a very complicated way of defining their Matrix attributes, which is capped by their Resonance and all their other stats. The sample TM has spent literally 180 BP on Technomancing and ends up with a 3/5/3/5 Commlink and 21800 :nuyen: worth of programs. Meanwhile of course, a 5/5/5/5 commlink sets you back 10000 :nuyen: - in short you could be better than the sample Technomancer on 6BP as a script kiddie. And I don't think that merely dropping the costs on technomancers is enough (though it's a good start). After all, if Technomantic powers were somehow made cheap enough to be better than hackers, things would be unbalanced the other way. The only way balance can be achieved is to have both character types serve a purpose -even within the same group. The existence of the special Sprite powers makes it pretty clear to me that the niche of Technomancers should be having the ability to use the Matrix in ways that aren't "possible" (as opposed to the Hacker, whose job it is to maximize the potential of what the Matrix allows). With that viewpoint, I'm actually fine with Technomancers getting their ass handed to them again and again in cyber combat by Hackers. But Technomancers need some sort of sideways paradigm that allows them to cheat the system into letting them be the star of the show sometimes - and that's totally missing from the basic book. --- Sprites are supposed to be a huge thing. And they are. But as long as Agents are so... not good... the advantages of Sprites really don't matter much. I mean the only current solution to the Agent Smith problem is to talk very openly to the Hacker and say "please don't push the limits of Agents in my campaign." - under the circumstances, what possible difference does it make what a Technomancer can do with his special agents? -frank |
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Aug 31 2007, 04:02 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 633 Joined: 23-February 06 Member No.: 8,301 |
Technomancers need to be able to acquire special abilities that are not duplicates of programs and that are not echoes (simply because echoes are so expensive to get). I've thought about it, and I kind of like the idea of special complex forms (or you can call them something else to avoid confusion) that are other kinds of special abilities. Due to the special nature of these abilities, you'd likely limit the number of these a TM can have (rather than just limiting the rating). These could include the ability to access an electronic device by simply touching it (not requiring any conventional matrix connection), actually having internal data storage (which is unhackable, because it's not a conventional device). Whatever. The details would need to be worked out. But I figure this sort of thing could go a long way toward making TMs more playable.
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Aug 31 2007, 04:37 PM
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#20
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
Hey Frank's back! I tot dat u wuz ded! You were wise to skip Matrix 3, if I had done that I would still like the first movie (maybe even the second one too).
I love the flavor of technomancers and the deep resonance and all that, but Frank's right it costs half your build points just to get what turns out to be a craptacular cyber-commlink that you could have bought off the shelf fully loaded for less than 30k nuyen. Maybe if they got all that just for the cost of the TM quality instead of having to pay for Resonance and Complex Forms, they might be interesting. A 30k cybercommlink = 6 BP, a collection of agents doesn't cost more than another 30k, so a technomancer and all his complex forms and sprites shouldn't cost more than 15 BP total. Giving the TM the ability to hack and communicate with all electronic devices by touch or line-of-sight would go a long way to making TMs unique. Activator nanites let you do it (for several thousand nuyen per dose), but TMs should be able to do it by default for free. Unhackable internal data storage (or at least unhackable by a non-TM) would also be nice. Maybe that could be a new power for a bound sprite. As a remote service, the sprite can hold as much data as you want forever and can't be hacked except by a TM. |
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Aug 31 2007, 04:46 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 14-December 06 Member No.: 10,360 |
I don't think that's an accurate view (Buster and Frank). The TM's "commlink" is dual-purpose. The stats function as meatspace stats as well. Not that this justifies the insane cost of being a TM, but it is something to consider.
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Aug 31 2007, 04:51 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 834 Joined: 30-June 03 Member No.: 4,832 |
Frank,
Thanks for the ideas, it's definately a different spin and I do agree that TM's need some ability that is orthogonal to what a hacker can already do. I think sprites were supposed to fill that but fell short. As for matrix 3... *shudder* |
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Aug 31 2007, 05:20 PM
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#23
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Target Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 9-June 06 From: Oxford, UK. Member No.: 8,687 |
You're all a bit too harsh on the Matrix trilogy.
I've watched it again - Animatrix included - recently (mmm... like 3 months ago), and I think there is a lot to say for the continuity and consistency of the universe. I think what got to us back in the day was the fact that it was clearly not what we expected - the humans don't really "win", the prophecy is bogus, the situation looks like it's being resolved by a Deus Ex Machina, etc... But in the end, it's a universe which is very consistent with itself - and with a number of mythological elements. And should we really hold it against a movie that it doesn't unfold as we'd expected ? Anyway, for those that read french, here is an excellent explanation of the Matrix trilogy by a sci-fi enthusiast - also gifted in philosophy and mythology. Cheers, Fumble. |
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Aug 31 2007, 08:14 PM
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#24
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
True, but requiring a technomancer to have a high Charisma just seems anti-pattern to me. Call me old school, but I think uberhackers should be weird and borderline autistic, not charming social butterflies. |
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Aug 31 2007, 08:47 PM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 14-December 06 Member No.: 10,360 |
But again, you're comparing technomancers to hackers. Is that not what we have to get away from in order to view technomancers as their own entity? I know canon doesn't imply it, but perhaps technomancers are, in fact, charismatic.
As mentioned previously, the otaku formed gangs and organizations. This implies some sort of leadership ability - or, perhaps, just a relatively high charisma. Maybe what we need to do is let the stats create the flavor, instead of forcing the flavor on the stats. |
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