Adept Character criticism, Can you give any hints? Options

[Irian]

Hi,

I'm just playing around with SR4 (played SR3 for many years) and as I still don't know what really important or helpfull, I wanted to ask if someone can give some hints.

What I want is a "rounded" character with a little focus on avoiding getting hit. Perhaps I have to forget the first thing and let him learn the valuable lessons InGame...
Somehow I ended up with many skills on 1, to avoid having to default... Don't know i this is a good idea...

Orc

Attributes:

Bod: 4 [0]
Agi: 5 [40]
Rea: 5 [40]
Str: 4 [10]
Cha: 2 [10]
Int: 4 [30]
Log: 3 [20]
Wil: 4 [30] -> Total 190

Edge: 4 [30]
Magic: 5 [40]

Qualities:
Human Looking [5]
Ambidex. [5]
Adept [5]

Sensitive System [-15]
Nano Intolerance [-5]
Incompetence (Mechanic) [-5]
... something for [-10]

Skills:

Close Combat (G) 4
Pistols 4
Automatics 4
Dodge 6
Athletics (G) 1
Perception 1
Etiquette 3
Pilot Ground Craft (Bike) 1
Armorer (Firearms) 1
Computer 1
Palming 1
Infiltration 1

Powers:
Impr. Reflexes 2
Combat Sense 3
Impr. Sense (Infra)
Sustenance

Equipment:
...something for around 20.000 (Weapons, Armor, Clothing, Commlink, etc.)

Any Ideas? I think about forgetting Infiltration and Palming to get the whole Firearms Group - just to be able to use Shotguns, too (I don't care for Sniper Rifles, the character seems to be more the "Near the enemey" type, not a Sniper, but a Shotgun could be nice sometimes).

[Mr. Croup]

Hmm.. Help can only be given if we know what you're trying to achieve with this character.

What's his/her purpose?

[Irian]

Didn't I write it at the top of my posting? I'm thinking of an adept, who'll perhaps become a real "Gunslinger" (with two guns) later, but at the moment only tries to be a decent fighter - main priority is to avoid getting hit at the moment. Didn't think of much more at the moment... Perhaps I'm also searching for some "generic" hints like "Don't buy ..., because..."...

Edit: The char will probably have street-level background, so I will probably not take any expensive cyberware (or no cyberware at all). Later, perhaps, but not at the beginning.

[fumble]

A way to improve very quickly with an adept character is to start with very low magic.

Put 20BP in Magic to bring it to 3, then get a synaptic booster 2 and Bone Density 4 (48BP). You'll start game with Magic 1, and will then get to improve very quickly.

Also, you now always have good close combat weapons at hand (litterally), and can get by with Unarmed 4 instead of the whole group.

Don't get rating 1 skills or groups : you get raped on the karma vs. BP efficiency (for the same reason, don't get them at 2 either).

When playing metahuman, you always should maximise your strong attributes, as it will cost you a lot more to improve them later with karma.

Avoid skills like armorer and palming (especially at creation at rating 1), and buy them later if you feel the need for them. Etiquette could also be left to the Face.

Lastly, avoid specialisation at character creation - pay 2 karma instead after game started.

Obviously, all of this depends on how frequently you intend to play. If you're not going to play very often, then you'll be better off being well-rounded from the start (so that you don't have to carry a 1 in Charisma and Logic for ages, or make do with no infiltration skill, that sort of thing...).
If this is a one-off, then the character is perfect as is - balanced, well rounded, cost effective given that he won't get any karma at a later stage.


Cheers,
Fumble.

***edit***
Ah-ah, I just saw your edit on cyberware (started typing this before, I think...).

Well, in that case, disregard my low magic attribute comment, but be aware this is going to be tougher to get better.
***edit***

This post has been edited by fumble: Aug 31 2007, 10:22 AM

[Da9iel]

If you really want to avoid getting hit, IPs are overrated. Invest in even more Combat Sense and improved ability: Dodge (if I'm remembering the name of the dodge buff correctly). Or you can get insane with gymnastics dodge and all the ways to increase gymnastics. It's non-combat, so it's cheaper than dodge with IA and has more cyberware that works for it. It is less effective than dodge in melee, but thats what your close combat group is for. Go crazy! You can get a synaptic accelerator later. Adepts always seem to have more money than karma anyway.

Heck, get SA 3 delta grade. :S

[Mr. Croup]

appologies, i meant i was wondering what your were trying to achieve from the perspective of roleplay.

If the character is an adept, i really wouldn't bother with cyberware as you'll immediately start taking a hit to your magic attribute (therefore powerpoints for adept powers).

I'm not sure how others would define "street level" these days, but if it were me i would limit my characters equipment to the less esoteric equipment and weaponry, for instance sticking to mainly light or holdout pistols, maybe the occassional heavy pistol or machine pistol. Stuff like SMGs, rifles, assault rifles i would consider outside of a street level background without some seriously good reasons. A sawn off shotgun wouldn't be too amiss on the street either, but as rare, if not rarer than heavy pistols etc.. Oh, and no matter how good at dodging the character is, i'd suggest some armour of at least armour jacket level if that doesn't effect the characters abilities too much (can't remember the armour rules for affecting stats etc.. off the top of my head right now)

You've got a fairly low perception skill, that can get you killed pretty quick if you don't know what dangers are coming. Try either to improve that skill or increase it artificially with equipment (earbuds and glasses with enhancements) but i'm not sure how prolific those kinds of equipment are on the street. Either way it's still no substitute for natural perception.

Having a bunch of skills at 1 isn't so bad, it at least means you don't have to default and if you really need it, your Edge is their to make up the difference. The way i see it SR4 character creation starts PC's at the 'entry level' of the shadows, so you're not going to be the baddest SOB around straight from the start.

That's all i can think of right now, back to work for me...

[Eleazar]

[fumble]

[toturi]

I disagree with not getting skill or skill groups at 1. Defaulting is bad but you can get away with it. Defaulting a mission critical skill is very bad and chances are you can't get away with that. At the very least, buy 1 rank in what I call the basic skill groups - Athletics, Influence and Stealth. That way, you won't default in any of the day to day skills a runner will need. If you start with your bases covered, you might find your PC alive long enough to gain that karma.

Go karma efficient in those skills you are specialising in. That means 1 skill at 6 and the rest of your skill groups at 4. It might be good to specialise in at least one of the basic skill groups and get them at 4.

Eleazar, I think you are playing with a House Rule with regards to the Magic + Cyber/Bio. As it stands RAW, there is no (Magic) stat, only Magic. So I would agree that it is more efficient to get IPs using bioware. He is paying it to increase it to 2 from 1; not from 3 to 4, then factor in -2.

[fumble]

Well, Irian, the only thing obvious is that you'll get very different answers to your simple how-can-my-character-be-better-question - I think sustenance is a very useful power, for example, well worth the 0.25 PP :) :D

I suppose in the end, it depends on what you feel is the rightest for you :D

[Irian]

Wow, so many hints, so much to learn... Unfortunatly, I can't use many of the tips, simply because they don't fit into my "mental image" of the character and I don't want to create a "Mr. Extremly Optimized Adept" - I just wanted to know what possibilities and guidelines are there, so that I can decide, which to use...

Cyberware is no possibility for this char, it doesn't "feel" right. He came from the streets, probably a gang, then had some small, local jobs to get a little bit of equipment... Perhaps later, when he earned some money - Bioware seems more likely, because the Sensitive System quality doesn't affect Bioware - but a smartlink is probably inevitable.

Gymnastics is a cool idea, never thought about it. More easy to get bonuses, etc. But somehow, again, I'm not sure if it feels right for this character. What's so wrong about dodge 6? It sounds rather usefull in Full Defense (and with increased Reflexes, you can go into full defense in the first action and then use the 1 or 2 other phases to do something).

I agree to Eleazar, multiple IPs seem to be essential for me and as I don't want to take Bioware (and will surely not get enough money soon), I almost have to take Increased Reflexes.

Attributes and Skills as high as possible is a good, mathematically based tip, thanks. (Of course, it depends on how often we'll play and how much karma we'll normaly get).
I just got the low skills to make him "round", so that he can know simple things, like how to prevent that you get hacked every five minutes... But probably it's more interessting to let him learn these little details in the game.

Sustenance ist surely not very effective, but it sounds really great. If someone offered me something like that for real, I would take it without thinking twice. You get five hours more life to use every day. The effect for a shadowrunner is not that big, of course (esp. an adept, who doesn't build or code things).

Edge seems to be pretty important for me, so I really hope to get it to 4 or even 5, because it's so damn universal...

As for the roleplaying: The equipment is rather basic, only a heavy pistol, (stereotypical) sunglasses with vision enhancements, etc. (bought with the mony from the "small jobs" mentioned above). An armor jacket is of course needed.

Oh, concerning magic: I also read the rules as follows...
1. Buy magic 5.
2. Install Cyberware for 1 point essence.
-> Your Magic drops to 4, Max. Magic drops to 5.
3. Buy magic 5 again for 25 karma.
But perhaps, I missed something.

Edit: Getting one rank in the Athletics, Influence and Stealth groups seems like an attractive idea to me. Perhaps I'll forget the combat groups... But not having to default and some basic knowledge in all these areas seems good to me - even if it isn't very karma-price-optimized.

[fumble]

[cx2]

Won't hurt to get a torch ("flash light" in American), maybe a few grenades. Grenades are cheap, especially gas grens with pepper punch or somehting similar and the odd smoke/thermal smoke gren.

[Moon-Hawk]

If you call a flashlight a torch, what do you call a stick burning at one end? Also a torch?

[Kerberos]

[fumble]

[Kerberos]

[Kyoto Kid]

[Whipstitch]

I remember reading the Chronicles of Narnia when I was in early grade school and being rather confused by the electric torch.

[Lagomorph]

[Irian]

Loosing your only magic point (by installing cyberware) means, that you burn out. Then you can never have a magic rating again. So your idea doesn't work :-)

[Kerris]

[Big D]

[knasser]

[azrael_ven]

Ok... first correction synaptic booster will not be affected by sensitive neural system since it is bioware, that only affects cyberware. It is more effective to use synaptic boosters than to pay for Improved Reflexes. That frees up 3 points - 1 for essence, which is 2 points to throw towards more adapt powers. Drop Impr. Sense and Sus and pick up quick draw and Impr. Combat skill Pistol since that is what you want to do.

Combat Sense 4 (2)
Impr Combat Pistol 3 (1.5)
Quick Draw (.5)

Bump Intuition up to 5. Loose all the level 1 skills and drop the close combat group. Forget Etiquette and take Intimidate. Take Unarmed at 4, Perception at 4, Pilot Ground Craft at 2 unless you plan on fighting from the back of the bike then bump it to 4. Maybe even bump Dodge down to 4 and take Pistols up to 6. For more well rounded you could do Electronics Group 2 and Infiltration Group 2 to round out your skills.

For a negative quality think about allergies. A common mild gives you 10BP. A moderate addiction can be fun too if you have a GM that will let you role-play a little so it could be a person, a type of music, or game.

Don't forget contacts, it is a great way to get info and help the GM to drive the story.

Have fun with it.