 We need novels, I know, this has been discussed before |
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 Aug 31 2007, 03:23 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 358 Joined: 12-May 05 From: The nearest UV host near you... Member No.: 7,390  |
There is a *lot* of discussions around technomancers these days...
Some people don't like them at all Some people don't use them in their campaigns Some people didn't knew they should be rare, that people should distrust them and so on... What we need are novels introducing a them as they should be viewed. I know that they don't have plans for SR4 novels... and that's just really sad. It's killing the game slowly. |
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Aug 31 2007, 03:30 PM
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#2
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 |
Actually, from what I heard of GenCon, Catalyst has the novel rights now. There's been no official word that there will be novels, as far as I know, but there could be now.
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Aug 31 2007, 03:37 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 341 Joined: 3-October 05 Member No.: 7,802 |
Don't forget Holostreets is still apparently in the works, if a little delayed.
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Aug 31 2007, 03:43 PM
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#4
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Target Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 9-June 06 From: Oxford, UK. Member No.: 8,687 |
I respectfully disagree - I think Fanpro/CGL is doing a great job at ressuscitating that game we all love. Their publishing strategy is excellent from a gamer's perspective, and is clearly a compromise for their financial efficiency. What I mean by this is : they make sure we have a proper gaming environment, with enough sourcebooks, with some of them appealing only GMs (more limited market), instead of hammering everyone's wallet with cool nifty rulesbooks. So, they published SM, which every magic-loving player bought (and which player has not done at least one awakened character in the past). Presumably, SM sold well. Then, they published Runner Havens, which is mostly for GMs. Presumably, this didn't sell as well, but if you look at the quality of the book (the like I haven't seen in a long time), you realise that it certainly asked as much time from their dev team as SM (given that tehre are no rules, though, I guess it didn't need playtesting, which is a major hassle removed). Then, they published Augmentation, which I'm sure everyone who owns a SR4 book will eventually get to buy. That book is extremely well made, and the fluff about the tech (the large large bit before the stats) is so in-depth that it is almost a sourcebook (I personnally think that is exactly what it is, at heart : how does Joe Average interract technology on a day-to-day basis). They published Emergence (which I haven't gotten to get yet), again a presumably less popular choice, but relevant in explaining TMs and the crash. They plan on releasing extremely cool setting describing stuff - Corporate enclaves and Feral Cities. All of this is great to give GMs a solid background on which to build their campaigns, and CGL has to be commended for developping a consistent range rather than publish a flurry of rulesbook (with plenty of new, more powerful prestige classes and feats in it...). What we do miss from the novels days, is some flavour and badassery ideas - but then again, I always thought that the novels were slightly edulcorated, not quite as gritty as they should be... |
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Aug 31 2007, 03:59 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 358 Joined: 12-May 05 From: The nearest UV host near you... Member No.: 7,390 |
So, is that true or not? I'm confused now... But I sure hope that you guys are right for the novel things. That would be awesome.
True. They do a great job. But novels can also boost the sale of the sourcebooks they relate to imho. |
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Aug 31 2007, 04:13 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 458 Joined: 28-March 05 From: NA/UCAS/IN/ Member No.: 7,246 |
I asked specifically about novels at the SR meet and greet at GenCon, and after a little bit of discussion, Loren Coleman suggested that some novels may be coming, but stopped short of saying for certain, by whom, or when.
So, YAY! |
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Aug 31 2007, 04:39 PM
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#7
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Target Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 9-June 06 From: Oxford, UK. Member No.: 8,687 |
True, true - I hope my post didn't appear as overly defensive or so... I just meant that in my opinion, their concerted and relevant publishing strategy was doing more for the game and its atmosphere than dime novels. I miss them as well, but it isn't Twist and Sally that got me in SR - I got into Twist's misadventures after I was blown away by my first SR games (the character creation was so incredibly new back then... letting you tweak this and that to finally get to exactly what you wanted). What was great about having novels was that your players sometimes had an idea of what it was they were facing, whithout exactly knowing everything about it (and most particularly, the finer technical details :D). That led to some seriously insect spirit paranoïa after one of them had read 2XS - a bit like an urban legend the character had heard about, in fact.... Has anybody read the Born to Run series ? I found them extremely poor - and uber boring. It was a physical effort to finish reading the 3 I foolishly bought (always start with the first one and see from there...). Cheers, Fumble. |
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Aug 31 2007, 04:45 PM
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#8
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
Just to make things clear: at this time, Catalyst Game Labs does not have the novel rights, but we are, as the saying goes, "Exploring all possibilities."
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Aug 31 2007, 05:12 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 358 Joined: 12-May 05 From: The nearest UV host near you... Member No.: 7,390 |
I faced the same thing too ^_^ it was really great roleplaying since my players knowed a bit more about the context. As for the Born To Run novels, I found them exceptionnally poor too... Like if it was written for a younger public... And guess what? This was the case, they were written to promote the Shadowrun: Duels action figure game. |
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Aug 31 2007, 05:14 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 358 Joined: 12-May 05 From: The nearest UV host near you... Member No.: 7,390 |
Thanks for the reply, Adam. Can you tell us why Catalyst arn't accepting Novel submissions from independent writers? Is it a Wizkids decision? |
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Aug 31 2007, 05:29 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 341 Joined: 3-October 05 Member No.: 7,802 |
If they don't have the rights to publish novels there's no point accepting submissions for novel ideas is there? A bit like accepting a few clips of ex-ex when you don't have anything to shoot them out of ;)
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Aug 31 2007, 05:37 PM
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#12
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
We don't have the license to publish Shadowrun novels, so we aren't at the stage yet where we would be looking at novel proposals from anyone. |
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Aug 31 2007, 06:49 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 609 Joined: 13-August 07 Member No.: 12,615 |
I like novels for the behind the scenes perspective they give. Especially the Dragon Heart trilogy, with it's backround on the crash virus, the Ghost Dance spike, etc. While sourcebooks are limited in what backround they can provide, the novels can go into much greater depth...who would have guessed that Alice Haefner and Damien Knight were lovers? And not only is Ryan Mercury a physad and drake, but aparently he also awakened as a mystic adept, and now has Harlequin as a teacher. Not to mention the truth behind Dunk's "assasination"...he was'nt killed at all, but killed himself to power the Dragon Heart. I hope to see more stuff like this in the future.
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Aug 31 2007, 07:53 PM
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#14
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
No new novels! Down with them!
That said, my main problem with game fiction is that in general, game liscence-related novels are as follows: 1) They not only encourage but revel in precisely the kinds of excesses I don't want to see in my games, they actively encourage it with their protagonists. Drake Supermodel PhysMage Rockstars? SURE! Lesbian Stripper Ninjas? AWESOME! Hell no. I don't want that shit anywhere near any game of mine unless it's like, Feng Shui or something, in which case that's ALL I want. 2) They are almost always written like crap. 3) Often, they directly contradict known shit about the game world. See the invention of "Yakashima." 4) Often, they directly invalidate in-game actions, especially if they are made after the game material they tie in with. Take "Harlequin's Back" by way of example. The PCs, by hook or crook, manage to defeat the undefeatable. They learn about the world, about themselves, and about ancient lore that no sane creature should have to be shouldered with. They brawl and hang on by the skin of their teeth to save a world that will never know what they did. And then, oh yeah, Dunk aces himself because he's really the guy that saved the world and the PCs were just band-aids on a sucking chest wound and couldn't have stopped it anyway. Where's the fun in that? Not to mention the fact that they engage retconning Dunk's very MANNER of death. Nobody sacrifices themself like that in freaking public and leaves a huge-ass mana warp. I don't care if they're a dragon or not. It's like a samurai comitting seppuku by using a dirty bomb - if the act is intended to fix ills, why leave a bunch of magical warps out in public when you disappear in mid-freaking-sentence. 5) See "generally crap" once again. That said, I'm not against game-based fiction. I'm against 'crap', which is usually what readers get. |
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Aug 31 2007, 07:57 PM
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#15
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Ain Soph Aur Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,477 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Montreal, Canada Member No.: 600 |
I was waiting for someone else to say it first, but yeah, the novels are crap. You need cyberpunk fiction, go read a real cyberpunk book. I for one don't want Catalyst to direct even a little of it's energy away from SR sourcebooks and sourcebook related projects. The novels aren't worth it.
Edit: What I DO want though if for them to reinstate in an actual 'ok, for real THIS time" kinda way the fiction on the website, in an actual monthly/bi-monthly way instead of a pretend by-monthly way. |
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Aug 31 2007, 11:05 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 609 Joined: 13-August 07 Member No.: 12,615 |
Ah, well. To each his own. But we do agree that Catalyst's most important goal must be to release new SR game books.
Nigel, you are sorely missed. |
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Sep 1 2007, 01:29 AM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 165 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,002 |
Is Roc just sitting on it? |
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Sep 1 2007, 04:00 AM
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#18
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
To the best of my understanding ROC doesn't have it right now; they elected not to renew after the last batch of six Shadowrun novels, so WizKids doesn't have it licensed to anyone currently.
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Sep 1 2007, 07:09 AM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 831 Joined: 5-September 05 From: LAX, UCAS Member No.: 7,687 |
Personally, I liked many of the novels (2XS and Burning Bright being my favorites after the Secrets of Power trilogy, Into The Shadows and Wolf & Raven rocked too). A few (the DHT, Shadowboxer, the Forever Drug, etc) were pretty damn craptastic. Overall though, the novels have had little effect other than window dressing and the occasional name drop (ie a Seattle radio announcer in one of my short stories has a thing for Sally Tsung) on my campaigns or fan fic even. It's a YMMV thing I guess.
I'd definitely like to see a new ongoing series of novels though. |
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Sep 1 2007, 12:51 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 199 Joined: 16-September 03 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 5,625 |
While the "Born to Run" novels aren't fabulous, the first one at least wasn't a bad light read if you didn't mind the "young" language. Ironic, actually, since many of the best YA novels don't write down to their audience.
Don't dismiss the rest of the Roc series entirely, though. Drops of Corruption and A Fistful of Data were pretty good, and nothing earthshattering or crazy happens in them. Just tales of deceit, scheming, and criminality... Out of all of the new ones, "Drops of Corruption" is IMHO the best. I'm a fan of Shadowrun fic (like Winterhawk's stuff and what's on the Shadowrun website), and I for one would like to see more of it, whether it's on the web or in print. |
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Sep 1 2007, 01:45 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 595 Joined: 12-May 05 Member No.: 7,392 |
Aaaaaand that makes this as good a place as any for me to check into this thread. Thanks Eugene! Here's what I can say: At GenCon 2006, I made it my personal crusade to save Shadowrun fiction. I held meetings. I made sure various people talked to each other. I worked the con as best I could, and I thought I made good progress. I left GenCon ready to follow up until things actually happened. I kept following up through the end of 2006, prompting whoever I could on the subject, wondering why there hadn't been more progress. Then, in early 2007, the switch to Catalyst happened. I learned some things then about why more progress hadn't happened in 2006, and I used every opportunity as the change was happening to remind people to think about SR fiction. Which brings us to GenCon 2007, when I once again took up the cause. Good things happened, and I believe progress was made. I can't give details, but I am optimistic about progress on both the novels and Holostreets fronts. I'm going to keep working on Loren Coleman and whoever else I can to get things to happen, but at this point I don't think I need to do much work--most everyone's on the same page. By the time GenCon 2008 rolls around, I hope I will not need to be scrambling to save SR fiction. I hope by that time it will be clear to everyone that SR fiction is a living, growing area. A couple quick notes about why Catalyst is not accepting manuscripts: First, as Adam noted, they do not have novel publishing rights. Hopefully that will be resolved soon, but until it is there is no sense in spending any time reviewing manuscripts. Second is a sad business fact. By the time any novels start coming out, it will be a year since the 6 Wizkids SR novels came out--and those novels had pretty much no promotion. The profile of the line has dropped precipitously. If Catalyst decides to go with new SR novels, they'll want to relaunch the line with a splash (we talked about resurrecting Nigel Findley to start us up, but sadly SR rules don't allow for that). That likely means no new writers to launch the line. But that's just for the launch. If the line continues, then the need for new writers will definitely be there. If I was looking to get into SR novels if/when they come about, I'd be sharpening my skills by writing stories for Holostreets (which, as a matter of fact, I am doing), and flooding the editors as soon as that site is launched. Just look at what happened on Battlecorps--two writers, Kevin Killany and Ilsa Bick, were widely praised for their stories on BC. The MechWarrior: Dark Age editor noticed them and brought them on to do novels. To date, Bick has written three MW:DA novels, while Killiany's second is due out early 2009. As with BC, Holostreets will likely serve as a great "farm team" for the novels. You can build a reputation among the fans and the SR powers that be. Be ready to be active there. Okay, this was longer than I thought it would be, but I hope it was helpful and appropriately optimistic. Just wanted to say that I will continue pushing for SR fiction from Catalyst until it happens. Jason H. |
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Sep 1 2007, 02:46 PM
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#22
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
I weep that there are no new Shadowrun novels but there are new Magic: the Gathering novels.
But I have faith. Loren L. Coleman is my second-favorite author of BattleTech fiction, and if he and IMR go for that license, they might get Shadowrun in the deal. |
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Sep 2 2007, 04:06 AM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 458 Joined: 28-March 05 From: NA/UCAS/IN/ Member No.: 7,246 |
Just slightly off-topic here, but JM Hardy, do you think Ilsa Bick knows that in Battletech sometimes the characters do get into the big robots and fight? Just saying, it doesn't seem to happen often in her books. They either don't get around to fighting, walk into assassination attempts, or strap into the mech and watch their nemesis fall from orbit. Other than that and needing a bachelor's degree in Japanese to read it, she does a good job writing the books.
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Sep 2 2007, 04:12 AM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 595 Joined: 12-May 05 Member No.: 7,392 |
Yeah, I'm pretty sure she's aware of the existence of 'Mechs. But as long as she's having fun doing what she's doing, I'm not inclined to interfere with her. She's tougher than me. Jason H. |
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Sep 2 2007, 04:24 AM
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#25
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Soooo Jason, I recall you saying something a year ago about working more Drop bears into your stories. :)
We're waiting. We're watching. |
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