 Zurich Orbital Falling, What is the fallout? |
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 Sep 4 2007, 12:05 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 29-December 06 Member No.: 10,483  |
Zurich Orbital, home of the Corporate Court. What exactly would be the repercussions if someone manages to destroy it, and make it catastrophically de-orbit? I mean do all those bank accounts go away? The Nuyen is based out of Z-O so shouldn't it plummet? What about the ten mysterious masters on the Orbital, are they really that important, or just figureheads?
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Sep 4 2007, 12:36 AM
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#2
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
If you hit Lofwyr with it, you win the game.
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Sep 4 2007, 12:37 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 225 Joined: 13-July 07 Member No.: 12,235 |
I'm not sure what would happen, but I think that by "ten mysterious masters" you mean "thirteen Corporate Court judges", although some of them commute and some of them telecommute.
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Sep 4 2007, 01:47 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 29-December 06 Member No.: 10,483 |
Really? I thought it was ten. Though really does anyone know anything about them, other than that they are in charge of the corporate court? I mean even as general as if they are say all humans.
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Sep 4 2007, 02:08 AM
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#5
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 |
The Zurich Orbital has a handful of permanent residents, who are neither the thirteen Corporate Court Justices nor the nine ZOG Bank Directors. They are very old people with lots of money, lots of influence, or both. The last time they were detailed there were six and they were covered on page 19 of Corporate Download.
The thirteen Corporate Court Justices were last detailed on page 22 of Corporate Download. Not all of the Justices live aboard the Orbital, some of them only shuttle up for significant private meetings and others only telecommute to the Orbital meetings. In addition, this is not the whole of the Corporate Court. Thousands of staff lawyers, economists, and administrators live Earthside and work for the CC every day. The nine Bank Directors of the Zurich-Orbital Gemeinschaft Bank also do not all live aboard the Orbital. They were also last detailed on page 23 of Corporate Download and of the nine, only two had the Zurich Orbital listed as their place of residence. If the Orbital were to fall out of the sky, there would be huge repercussions on the global economy, but not because of the deaths of those aboard or even because of the destruction of the computer networks aboard the Orbital. There would be a sudden dive in the confidence in the nuyen and the ZOG Bank might even have to shut the nuyen exchange for an indeterminate amount of time. They would most likely recover (the ZOG does have terrestrial banks and likely has data backups) but in the meantime you'd have corporations cut off from their primary source of credit and things would likely get nasty fast between them. |
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Sep 4 2007, 02:19 AM
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#6
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,650 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 12,328 |
err.. wouldn't they be total clowns if they didn't have at least one and probably more fully active data centers ready to go if ZO falls over, with live copies of all the data synced against every transaction ready to roll. All concepts of the future aside, I imagine the link up to ZO isn't flawless so you'd want fully redundant capability on the ground ready to roll includes it rains heavily, or there is an electrical storm or whatever. |
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Sep 4 2007, 02:21 AM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 29-December 06 Member No.: 10,483 |
Ah. That does make sense I didn't think anyone would put all their eggs in one basket.
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Sep 4 2007, 02:29 AM
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#8
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
Which is why I planned to have Japan deniably hit it with an ASAT while everyone was meeting, to control the fallout while they conducted a "boardroom coup" of certain Japanese-based megacorps with commandos and airstrikes. Sort of an unofficial withdrawal from the assorted treaties allowing extraterritoriality.
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Sep 4 2007, 02:33 AM
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#9
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
Yes. And this is Shadowrun, where only the mentally retarded are allowed to run computer operations. Nobody ever backs up anything in shadowrun. That's why we have these huge crashes. Not to mention missions to go steal "all copies of xyz", which is impossible if people actually acted like they do in the real world and had backup copies off-site in multiple secure centers. |
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Sep 4 2007, 02:36 AM
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#10
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,650 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 12,328 |
Well assuming you took out the inter-bank trading system at the same time (probably not hard) you could cause a fair degree of collapse in an already destabilized infrastructure! |
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Sep 4 2007, 02:38 AM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 811 Joined: 30-January 07 From: Portland, OR Member No.: 10,845 |
Besides the fact that they are the evil overlord kind of people, they are not near stupid enough to keep all their eggs in one basket, much less one basket in such a precarious position. Everything would not just fall apart and all the corps go to war just because the parents went away.
I do see a lot of nervousness between the corps, probably extending into the shadows and a lot of minor scale shadow activity between corps until everything is resolved. |
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Sep 4 2007, 02:55 AM
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#12
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,650 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 12,328 |
I suspect it depends on the exact line of business and the actual capability of the section you are dealing with. I've worked for some largish and high profile clients with complete clown shoes for their backup management setups. Including some guys that had their disaster recovery site as a closet in a second building. Except that all traffic from the second building was routed through the first building.. so if the main site went down the DR site.. was useless. Backups where equally effectively managed. I imagine the finance industry is somewhat better though. From what I know about swift and other such systems it is actually pretty good. |
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Sep 4 2007, 03:02 AM
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#13
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 |
Sure, the ZO has redundant systems, but it's unlikely those will switch over instantly without a hitch. And when you are the bank of the megacorporations and the reserve bank for the global currency, any interruption is a big deal. Panic alone is a concern, outside of any technical difficulties.
The New York Stock Exchange was closed for nearly a week after the attack on the World Trade Center. It's fair to believe there would be some interruption in service if the Orbital came tumbling out of the sky. |
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Sep 4 2007, 03:09 AM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 29-December 06 Member No.: 10,483 |
Mostly I'm trying to figure out which way to create the greatest amount of fear uncertainty and doubt that is possible. All without getting Crash 3.0. Mostly as a way to give runners more to do.
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Sep 4 2007, 03:17 AM
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#15
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,650 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 12,328 |
Mhm, something like SWIFT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_W...lecommunication which is directly analogous to ZO (right down to be a co-operative owned by the banks that use it's interbanking transaction services) actually has higher avalibility requirements than the NYSE - and from what I can see the NYSE was not shut down because of any physical impact to it's infrastructure, rather trading is suspended when bad things happen. But interbank financial transfers (which ZO presumably handles) have to go on in that sort of environment. SWIFT can do live, seamless failover. Well, they SAY they can, I've no proof either way. Edit: That said I think anyone blowing up ZO's space station would create lots of fear and uncertainty ;P |
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Sep 4 2007, 03:37 AM
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#16
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
My boss, who was on a DMAT team at WTC, has pictures from inside the Verizon CO that serves lower Manhattan. Featured prominently in the pictures are two things you never want to see in a central office. The sky and fire hoses. When WTC 7 collapsed it took out power for the entire area, as WTC 7 was built over the rather huge CommEd substation that preexisted the WTC complex. Not sure what direct impact this had on the CO (as they have floors of batteries and huge generators), but it wasn't great for those who didn't. |
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Sep 4 2007, 03:40 AM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 524 Joined: 12-April 06 Member No.: 8,455 |
Exactly. Taking down Z-O will not magically make the economy stop working because the physical Z-O was so important--taking down Z-O will cause something less than a Crash but still massively devastating, because it throws massive Fear, Uncertainity, and Doubt into the equation. Witness any good bank run. Heck, look at the current mortgage brouhaha, where one industry drifting too far over the line for too long caused a backlash, which then spiraled into all kinds of places as people got scared. There was a real, if small, chance of it causing a general panic; hence the speeches and promises of lower central bank rates, just to keep confidence up. So, if somebody drops Z-O, it's not the fact that they dropped Z-O that counts; it's the fact that they fired a broadside right smack into the corps *and* the world economy, *knowing* the consequences. Anybody who's confident (or crazy--see Winternight) enough to do something like that, has enough moxie to completely shake things up, or they wouldn't have tried.
In this example with Japan, either Japan has the ability to (de facto or de jure)nationalize all domestic corp assets, weather the resulting storm, and get a pass back into the global economy when all is said and done, or the government falls after the Omega Order goes out and the Thor shots start falling. *Either way*, little and big fish alike are going to be scurrying for their hideyholes until it blows over, and *that* is what will cause the chaos and panic. EDIT: Added quotes from Cthulu and kzt for clarity. |
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Sep 4 2007, 03:44 AM
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#18
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,650 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 12,328 |
Yeah, it would be bad news. However, I'd see ZO as falling into the floors of batteries + real business continuity in multiple secure locations that make anything the Us govenment has atm look like a joke etc as one of the key purposes of a central bank (read: Zürich Orbital) is to provide ready access to a large amount of funds in times of crisis to smooth over liquidity problems, the system for lending money from the central bank has to god damn work in times of crisis otherwise you are completely boned - one of the notable things in the sept 9/11 attacks was how much money the banks of America borrowed off the federal reserve, tens of billions of dollars. If ZO is the central bank of the mega corps (which it seems to be) then ZO has to be able to dispense massive amounts of cash to the mega corps when there is a crisis that causes liquidity issues. If it cannot then finance system explodes whenever there is a serious crisis (every three seconds in the SR4 verse). |
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Sep 4 2007, 03:45 AM
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#19
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
The plan was they made a deal with Aries. . . Who controls the Thor systems. And with no corporate court there isn't anyone to order an attack or pass any other order. Such an "unfortunate terrorist attack". And when they reconstitute the CC the newly appointed Japanacorp judges and Aries can probably put together a working majority. |
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Sep 4 2007, 04:03 AM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 524 Joined: 12-April 06 Member No.: 8,455 |
You can do that; just make sure that you work through how all of the major players react.
Does Lofwyr ignore it, because they wouldn't dare go after him (and maybe he saw this coming, and prepped for it already)? Do other countries start getting ideas about nationalizing *their* domestic corps or corp assets, as a result? What about the Azzies? What about the other Asian megas? Just because Japan manages a majority bloc in the Corp Court, doesn't mean that they "win". They don't "win" until the other corps decide to let it go and let them get away with it. Which is entirely possible; no sense in risking your entire corp over your competitors *unless* you think it puts you on the chopping block, too... |
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Sep 4 2007, 05:22 AM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 29-December 06 Member No.: 10,483 |
Well at that point I think you pretty much just started WWIII, and a massive turning point of either getting the Megacorps truly cemented in, or a swing back towards nation-states. That is just a guess though. I mean I bet most nations are going to have to do something during such an event.
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Sep 4 2007, 05:30 AM
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#22
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,650 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 12,328 |
If two japan courts and the azzies are nationalised, thats 30% of the corp court in *national* hands. I can see that lots of places would go bezerk. thats 1.5 security council seats. The funny thing is it would probably also cause a drive for the pissant countries that have sprung up everywhere to reunite. If there was a nationalisation drive, it makes a huge deal of sense of CAS/UCAS to get back together - who is going to get something like ARES? |
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Sep 4 2007, 05:54 AM
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#23
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
Sure. But the wider effects Japan doesn't really care about, Japan in all about Japan. Whether everyone or anyone throws of "the yoke of servitude to the megacorps" or nobody does really doesn't matter. It's all about Japan and the Japanacorps screwing with the Empire. And Japan is really unlike just about any other nation in that it has a real force projection capability, it has a heavy duty space program (Want to bet they they can't redirect the gigwatts of output of each of the dozens of SPS in a rather more coherent and destructive form? Want to bet that they don't have lots of other interesting tricks awaiting?) that proved in could move megatons of gear to GEO, and they can really, really hurt corps and nations who screw with them. How many corporation boards of directors want to get their facilities destroyed and themselves personally killed to avenge Renraku? |
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Sep 4 2007, 06:14 AM
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#24
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
No, it's a lot more than 1.5 or 30% Japan would have: Shiawase, Renraku, Mitsuhama. Last time they listed the members that is 4 members of 13. They are founders, so they will always have at least 3 seats. Aries, assumed to be in on this, has two. (It's a founder) Evo (Which for the personal grudges of Buttercup, etc is assumed to be willing to support them in bringing the Japancorps to heel) has one. (and is a founder also) That's 7 of 13. A working majority. At worst they would probably be able to shut down attempts to do anything drastic, as I'd assume it requires a supermajority to do anything really drastic. |
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Sep 4 2007, 07:42 AM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 524 Joined: 12-April 06 Member No.: 8,455 |
Again, "drastic" doesn't mean just going to the UN and trying to get sanc--err, getting the CC to slap down or even OO somebody, and giving up if that fails.
Drastic means that some or all of the remaining CEOs decide that this is an intolerable offense, a clear and present danger to the existence of AAAs in general. We're talking anything from massively increased shadow activity to all-out *real* corp war, which has never really happened (the Azzies got virtually a slap on the wrist in comparison--what, *one* facility blown up?). Feel free to go there, but remember, you're talking about an event potentially bigger than the Crash. If you don't want it to go that far, give the other CEOs a very good reason not to (beyond mere threats from other corps--they're considering their long-term *survival* here). |
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