My Assistant
Site Message
(Message will auto close in 2 seconds)
  |
 Astral Ward confusions |
 Sep 6 2007, 01:21 AM
Post
#26
|
|||
|
Immoral Elf  Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486  |
You're right. Where does it state that it is the inside walls of the car that must be the anchor? |
||
 |
 
|
||
|
Sep 6 2007, 01:21 AM
Post
#27
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
As to ward (or counterspelling) Rob had anwered (sorry I don't have the direct quote anymore lost my emails)..
That in both cases the ward (or counterspelling) could protect an 'object' effectively removing sucess. So while RAW might not directly give wards / counterspelling the ability to protect objects an offical answer has said it should. The biggest problem here would be, some kid scratches the paint on your car and ward go bye bye. furthermoore with out a lot of work (that also would generaly 'break' the ward.. it would be almost impossible to get the whole vehicle 'in the ward'... Most doors 'bow' out some... if the 'door' is not a marker, then the ward could extend only as far as the cross-beam etc.... which means the door is NOT inside the ward... which means the car can be targeted from outside the ward with no protection (if somebody can see the door).. If the door IS a marker for the ward... the instant you open the door you are changing the relation of the markers with each other and the ward is broken.... Since spell targeting the 'vehicle' target it all, if a single piece of the vehicle extends past the ward, the 'vehicle' isn't really protected by the ward... So ward generally are to protect the contents of a container, not the container itself. That being said as I also mentioned the dome ward inthe middle of a field, it is inmaterial to the problem in question. Either: 1) the foci/spell/etc never crossed the 'ward' in which case nobody knows anything.. 2) the foci/spell/etc was forced cross the ward boundary... in which case it forces it was through the ward, or goes inactive... doesnt matter if the ward boundary is inside, outside, in the middle of a vehicle... Wards (from the rules) are binary.. You have crossed the ward boudnary, or you havent crossed the ward boundary .. Only things with pure astral bodies have the third option of 'you tried to cross the ward boundary and failed. |
|
|
|
|
Sep 6 2007, 01:49 AM
Post
#28
|
|||
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Yep, because every time you open the door to a Warded room, the Ward vanishes. I'm not going to go on with this, as it really was an immaterial point in the first place. :) |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Sep 6 2007, 02:12 AM
Post
#29
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
Fortune:
IF the door is a 'ward' marker then YES opening the door breaks the ward.. If the WALL the door is in is a ward marker, then no problem... with opening the door... HOWEVER, in this case the doornob (if nothing else) is almsot certain extending past the 'wall' and is such is 'outside' the ward.. I could perfectly fine combat spell the door with no protection from the ward, to destroy the door... Although this would have no effect on the ward... To protect the 'object' the object must be totally within the ward. (or some part of it could be targeted without passing through the ward... in which cast the ward isn't protecting the object) So for your car: Put the 'door posts' for the sides, the top of the car, the floor board of the cars, and the bumpers of the car as your markers. Anything that is 'above' the roof (antenna, roof rack), below the floorboards (exhuast pipe if ICE), farther to the side then the door posts (most doors, almost all door handles, etc) is not inside the ward and not protected... Now if you put a ward marker on all the 'farthest out' points, you could enclose the whole car... but there is a good choice several of those ward markers are going to move occasionally, which DOES break the ward... Wards are ment to protect the CONTENTS of the room (normally) but generally can not protect the ward markers themselves... Also the other problem if the ward extends OUTSIDE your car... While the car is likely your property.... and (save on corp lands) privacy, etc laws allow you to protect 'your car'... If the ward (which is invisible) extends OUTSIDE you car... then every single time somebody squeezes betweein your car and the car next to it, and lose the spirit, spell, etc... YOU have damaged them and are liable. (same way people right now have been sued and had to pay, for people being disturbed by car alarms...)... If your 'ward' kills my spirit / spell while I am walking in public space, you are liable for damages done... Rest assured, there would be a million get riches yuppies that would harass people just for this.... (probably paid by opposing corps....) You MIGHT have a right to raise a ward to protect your car.... You have NO right to ward off a section of public property (even if only 1 mm outside of your car)... Heck present laws, it would aruguably be illegal to ward of your car, while it is in public property, until precdent is set... (which I have seen nothing in the rules or fluff, that states, and heck can't even think of an 'offical' warded vehicle anyways). but ONCE AGAIN this is inmaterial.... EITHER: 1) The 'ward boundary' is crossed physically ... in which the object has to force its way through the ward (or be forced inactive) or 2) The 'ward boundary' isn't crossed ... in which case nobody knows anything... There is no PHYSICAL effect of ward so if you move a physical object (that has an astral respresenation too) through a ward... 1) It forces it was through the ward.. 2) It is forced from the astral.... For objects there is no 'I try to go through and failed' and got repelled... Now an 'awakened' entity can try to force its way through (or mask) and might not get through... But the 'object' cant decide not to go through... if it is carried past a ward.. then it is been forced through and at that point it must force its way through or be shut off... The 'car' is irrelevant, just the example you picked... As mentioned before doesnt matter if it is a socer field, that the goal posts are ward markers... If a physical object with an astral presence if move past the ward boundary .. then it must force its way through, or it is shut off... |
|
|
|
|
Sep 6 2007, 02:18 AM
Post
#30
|
|||
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
My only comment is that I've never disputed that. Other than that, as I said last post, I'm out. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Sep 6 2007, 02:23 AM
Post
#31
|
|
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
Walls of an apartment have a thickness. Where within this thickness is the ward located?
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 6 2007, 02:37 AM
Post
#32
|
|||||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,288 Joined: 4-September 06 From: The Scandinavian Federation Member No.: 9,300 |
As I've interpreted it that's up to you.... it can be right inside the walls, within the walls, or right outside the walls... but not in the air outside the walls. So the ward could be like think oil covering the vehicle from the outside, from the inside, or like a layer of isolation inside the walls of the car or whatever. Having it outside like you suggest gives the paint the protection of the ward, but makes it visible from the outside (and a warded car would scream something valuable or someone in need of protection inside). On the other hand, having it withing or right inside would only protect the internal parts of the car - which means you could make a whole in it with the powerbolt or something, but it would be invisible to the outside. Wards are usually employed to prevent astral spies from entering a certain place, looking into it or using astral tracking or Search power against someone inside. Protection from direct spells is not as common in my games at least. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Sep 6 2007, 03:28 AM
Post
#33
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
Actually I have to say re-reading, I have had some house rules override RAW... House-rules we have always had the 'limits' of the ward area had to be marked (the 'outside points' Although raw the anchor (only needs one) jsut needs to be inside the ward (and the ward must extend 1m on all side of item. To this does then mean, that a car would almost have to have a ward the extended past the car.. (few cars have a point that could contain a 2m diamter sphere) Also given that the ward has to be a simple shape.... would make it impossible to have the ward directly follow the 'lines' of the car (unless you car is a perfect box). So warding a 'car' again becomes very hard.... Also as mentioned I dont see warding 'past' the car from being possible... the first time you pull close to another car.. bang wards overlap something breaks... and one of you is getting serious crap.... 2) it would be a legal libality in UCAS/CAS areas... first time a Dual-Natured mage not paying attention walks through the ward (trying to catch the buss while talking with an astral buddy, the -6 die perception of doing oth pretty well explains why he doesnt see it)... He is knocked unconcious by our invislbe ward, extending outside the limits of your property that you MIGHT have a right to ward... rest assured you are getting sued... better hope your corp has better lawyers then his (and doesnt mind bad PR). You know the rules really don't work IMO... with the RAW rules (as opposed to our house rules).... The anchor cant be that pentagram scribed on the floor (unless you want the ward, extending to the floor below you, VERY few floors are 1 meter thick....) Rather the ward is going to have to be something standing in the center of the room (some pillar or something). Although the FAQ does imply otherwise, it doesnt directly change the rules:
The 'walls' are anchor... I doubt the ward woudl extend 1m outside the wall, so presumably the 1m rule is more jsut a minimum sphere a 1m radius can be warded. So RAW: we have to have an anchor somewhere inside the vehicle that a simple geometric shape ward extends from atleast 1m in all directions. Now the FAQ gives us a little more and implies that the walls of a shipping container could be the anchor (and presumably only the 'inside' is warded... not 1m OUTSIDE the walls (otherwise lord help you if they stack 2 together). Personally I will stick with our house rule (looks like it may have been FAQ based) and that the boundaries can be warded (to form a simple shape) OR a central point can be warded, but the minum size is 1m radius sphere, and that it must be a simple geomtric shape. Eitherway, warding must cars seems rather hard.. Now step vans, moving vans, semi-trailers, etc would be nice candidates, but the 1m radius sphere would hurt most vehicles... and personally I dont see how extending wards outside the vechile would work, for something used on 'public' property. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 12th April 2022 - 04:47 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.