My Assistant
![]() ![]() |
Sep 18 2007, 02:14 PM
Post
#26
|
|||
|
Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 45 Joined: 25-November 03 From: Harrisburg, PA Member No.: 5,848 |
By that, do you mean that you would prefer that those who GM Missions would never play them? Or those that would play would never GM them? Here's our situation, and why I asked about this in the first place: We've got a handful of people who are interested in playing SR Missions. One of us has volunteered to run the first one. However, he would also like to get to play Shadowrun, so others (including myself, possibly only myself) will likely step up to run other Missions. My concern was that having 2 people GM half the Missions each, those GMs will have characters at roughly half the karma and :nuyen: level as the rest of the characters, and that those 2 characters will be overshadowed by the others and have less chance to shine. (Now, my concern is that having a GM play at all is going to be frowned upon.) |
||
|
|
|||
Sep 18 2007, 02:38 PM
Post
#27
|
|||||||
|
Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Retired Admins Posts: 1,784 Joined: 28-July 04 From: Cleveland, OH Member No.: 6,522 |
That's exactly what I mean. However, in this case, that's a personal opinion and a preference, not a rule. If your group wants to split up GMing duties, then be my guest. Don't worry about offending me. It's your game, not mine. :)
Shadowrun characters start off at a fairly high power-level, and a difference of 20-50 karma is much subtler than the difference between a well-optimized and a poorly-optimized starting character. In the course of a 25 session story arc, if each of your GMs are miss 1/2 the adventures, even by the end of the campaign, you're only looking at a maximum difference of 70-ish karma. (A more probable difference of 30-ish karma.) That's not a difference that's really going to stand out. |
||||||
|
|
|||||||
Sep 18 2007, 05:44 PM
Post
#28
|
|
|
Grand Master of Run-Fu ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
There's also the matter of money and gear and contacts. I saved up more than enough for an attention coprocessor, which does make a huge difference. While I can't see any fair way of distributing these, except for a karma buy-in, they can make a bigger difference in character power levels than karma alone. Combine the two, and you've suddenly got a huge gap.
|
|
|
|
Sep 18 2007, 07:26 PM
Post
#29
|
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 103 Joined: 21-August 07 Member No.: 12,814 |
I've generally found few people that just want to DM in a living campaign. A home campaign is different, of course, because the GM is creating the world. You can't really share that. In a living campaign, the GMs are only aware of the plot for that particular mod. They may know a few things more than the average player, but there is no reason why they should know too much (the mod where it matters is where you explain it to the GM, not the preceding one).
For a living campaign, and here I have played Living Greyhawk and Spycraft mostly, I find that very few GMs want to just judge. They want to play a bit as well. If you are low on GMs, then this is a big problem. You are trying to talk people into either: - Come in brand new to the campaign and start judging, or - Switch from being a player to being a judge. The first will bring inexperienced judges. The second will generally bring in cautious people who want to try it out and see how it goes. This is where rewards really pay off. When they know their PC isn't taking a hit, sure, they'll eat a mod. And eating mods is generally what happens in the 90% of the US that doesn't have some super-dedicated person that knows everyone and attends all the cons. Maybe the real question out there is whether people would judge more if they had rewards. If they would, then you have to balance the desire for having 'pure' judges that are dedicated because they want to judge, and bringing more judges into the system. I am not sure that the quality of judging has anything to do with whether you like to play. In my Spycraft and LG experience, there is no link. There are great GMs that only judge and great GMs that have 18 characters. Teos |
|
|
|
Sep 18 2007, 09:24 PM
Post
#30
|
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 775 Joined: 31-March 05 From: florida Member No.: 7,273 |
suggestion, and since we used this one I can tell you it works so long as none of the GMs flake on you, is that each GM run a different set of runners, this not only lets your players experiment but it keeps the karma equal all across. Now granted each player will have a number of characters to keep track of equal to the number of GMs but thats not difficult so long as they keep them filed in the same place, (IE their book)
|
|
|
|
Sep 18 2007, 11:39 PM
Post
#31
|
|||
|
Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Retired Admins Posts: 1,784 Joined: 28-July 04 From: Cleveland, OH Member No.: 6,522 |
Unfortunately, that's not really our model. There's enough continuity between adventures that it would be, to put it mildly, problematic, for a GM to play in an early adventure after running a number of the latter ones. |
||
|
|
|||
Sep 18 2007, 11:41 PM
Post
#32
|
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 103 Joined: 21-August 07 Member No.: 12,814 |
I added a poll just for fun. I'll be quiet on the topic now, just learning the ropes and seeing what's what.
Teos |
|
|
|
Sep 19 2007, 02:36 PM
Post
#33
|
|
|
Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 45 Joined: 25-November 03 From: Harrisburg, PA Member No.: 5,848 |
@the_dunner
That's an interesting (and wholly foreign to me) perspective on the Missions campaign. Like Alphastream, I come from a Living style campaign background, so I suppose I have "that kind" of mentality about public/organized campaigns. I gather from your latest post that SR Missions runs a bit differently. With a strong continuity (which I like) I completely understand not wanting to GM a later mission before playing a previous one. My main concern would be playing a Mission and then GMing that same mission for others; something that I feel would help the campaign grow. From my perspective, discouraging players from GMing and GMs from playing severely limits the growth of Missions in popularity. It would seem (from what I've read in this thread) the ideal model is to run Missions like a home game campaign, with one GM and the same set of players throughout. But that to me runs counter to the whole point of a public/shared campaign, where players from different areas get together and conventions and participate in a common game world. Also, if not playing half of the 25 Missions in this campaign means you're only out about 30 karma, then you're getting an average of 2-3 karma per mission? That seems like a quite slow rate of advancement; if I were to miss out playing half the missions, then with my ~30 karma, I could just barely up my Firearms skill group to 5, and up Perception to 2 by campaign's end. Slow advancement is fine, by itself, but it may also serve to discourage players from GMing missions (and spreading the campaign) without playing them first, if they like the idea of seeing their character improve throughout a campaign. Reading people here posting about 250+ karma characters is mind-boggling to me; unless the rollover karma from the previous Missions campaign accounts for a huge chunk of that. |
|
|
|
Sep 19 2007, 03:32 PM
Post
#34
|
|||
|
The Dragon Never Sleeps ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
There is a story arc and a metaplot and a common background, so it would seem to be the case. But in practice if you did have a "regular" campaign, the Missions aren't what would want to run for the full story arc. For almost any mission the players can easily "break" the metaplot and thus throw out the other 24 modules. It is however intended to give that regular campaign feel when run at the FLGS or conventions, which is a great way of demonstrating the game and introducing RPG players to SR4. The idea is that I as GM running Mission 15, can ask if any players have done Mission 6, and look at their log and based on the result tilt the response of NPC accordingly. Can vary by PC (Different players will have accomplished different things during their missions). |
||
|
|
|||
Sep 19 2007, 03:36 PM
Post
#35
|
|||||||||
|
Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Retired Admins Posts: 1,784 Joined: 28-July 04 From: Cleveland, OH Member No.: 6,522 |
I'm not sure about basis for the logical leap you're making here. While Missions works fine in a home campaign, that's only a part of the target environment.
That's correct. A successful mission earns 1-3 Karma (depending upon degree of success), with a bonus of 1-3 karma for RP. In almost all cases, the maximum Karma award is 6. (There are 2 or 3 with a maximum of 7.)
If character improvement is key to someone's enjoyment, then the Missions campaign might not be the best campaign for them. There are two key reasons: 1)Character advancement in Shadowrun *is* comparatively slow. 2)Shadowrun is deadly. While the adventures aren't constructed around PC mortality, every single one of them has scenes that can easily lead to a TPK.
It's mind-boggling to me as well. There were 14 SR3 Missions. (SRM00 & SRM01 combined) That works out to a maximum of roughly 84 rollover karma. There've been 20 released SRM02 Missions. That gives a further maximum of roughly 120 karma. There've been 2 Shadowrun Scrambles at GenCon. Each of those might have netted another 7 karma. That still leaves a maximum total of well under 250. If a player sits down with a Shadowrun Missions character at a table today and has 250 karma, I'd posit that there was a mistake made somewhere. Further, if a PC is consistently receiving the maximum awards for every adventure, then I'd posit that his GM(s) is/are being WAY too nice. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
Sep 19 2007, 05:23 PM
Post
#36
|
|||||
|
Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 45 Joined: 25-November 03 From: Harrisburg, PA Member No.: 5,848 |
What I meant by 'home game campaign', was having one GM and the same set of players play through each of the missions in order. I admit that probably isn't the best term for what I meant. "Adventure path" would probably be a better one. If you have a population of GMs, and a completely separate population of players, I feel that there's little reason to look outside of a single local group of a GM + players to play Missions. If you have overlap between those populations, then I would have an incentive--letting everyone here enjoy the experience of playing a particular mission--to go to Cleveland (it's not that far from Pittsburgh) and play a Mission, and then run that mission for the folks here. I know that there's nothing stopping me from doing just that, but you've indicated here a personal preference against that. I just feel that if it was instead encouraged, you could see a greater increase in the Missions playerbase. (And I don't mean encouraged in terms of rewarding GMs, but just making statements like "Come and play, and if you enjoy it get a few friends together and run them through and let them enjoy the experience too!") |
||||
|
|
|||||
Sep 19 2007, 06:34 PM
Post
#37
|
|||
|
Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Retired Admins Posts: 1,784 Joined: 28-July 04 From: Cleveland, OH Member No.: 6,522 |
As I said -- I don't discourage that. I personally find it distasteful, but that's entirely my opinion, and not something that I move to enforce. |
||
|
|
|||
![]() ![]() |
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 13th April 2022 - 12:39 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.