Armor + Immunity to Weapons, How do they stack/interact Options

[tisoz]

I tried a search for this and got 96 pages with nothing useful in the first 5.

I am trying to find how normal armor stacks or interacts with Immunity to Normal Weapons. Say someone is Channeling a Force 3 great form spirit and wearing a Long Coat. What happens?

[Gelare]

Well I haven't read nearly as much of Street Magic as I ought to, but let's say you summon a Spirit of Man and slap an armored vest on him, just, y'know, treat it like it makes sense. If I shoot a pistol at this spirit and don't overwhelm the hardened armor he has naturally, I get nothing. If I don't get enough DV for hardened armor + armored vest, then the spirit takes stun damage. And if I do get enough DV to bypass both, it takes physical. In the first case there's no need for the spirit to roll damage resistance dice, but in the second two cases the spirit gets its hardened armor + body as normal, + armor. I reckon it's like how Mystic Armor and normal armor stack.

Of course, I have just about as many rules to back that up as there are money back guarantees on BTL chips, so y'know. :P

[BishopMcQ]

SR3--I would rule that the immunity would apply with the force. If the power of the attack exceeds the threshold for the "hardened" part, then resist the attack with standard rules for stacked armor. Immunity provides double the force in Armor for resisting so Secure Longcoat (4/2?) translates to 8/7 armor (6 from the spirit, plus 1/2 the longcoat ratings)

Note this is just how I would rule it, as it seems to maintain the spirit of the rules. No pun intended...

SR4--Per Gelare. The hardened armor again sets the threshold for whether the attack even matters. Once that has been exceeded, compare DV vs armor for stun and physical.

Query--My understanding was that armor doesn't stack in SR4, thus the only benefit to wearing armor on a spirit would be if the armor rating provided better coverage than the spirit's immunity (perhaps for low force spirits).

[Gelare]

[tisoz]

It is a 3rd edition question.

Suggestion 1 - treat as natural armor with worn armor. Effectively Hardened Armor 3 + Armor 4/2. Power of incoming attack reduced by worn armor, then further reduced or ignored by hardened armor. Effectively, Hardened Armor 5/4.

Suggestion 2 - treat as layered armor. Effectively Hardened Armor 3 modified by +2/+1. I think I need more convincing why this interpretation should be followed. Gets messier if the mage is already wearing layered armor. Should layering penalties be incurred?

How is a vehicle containing vehicle armor and personal armor treated when shot? (the problem being - th order the armor is encountered is likely reversed - meaning the shot will hit the vehicle armor before encountering personal armor say lining a seat)

Links from better searchers?

[Glyph]

A lot of posters argue that, since the attack will hit the "normal" armor first, it should be reduced in power before it is compared to the immunity to normal weapons power. However, this both ignores the abstract nature of the Shadowrun armor rules, and effectively makes ALL of the character's armor hardened.

I would apply both sets of armor, without using the layering rules. Immunity to normal weapons is more like an armor spell - it should add to the normal armor at its full value. However, I would still compare the unmodified damage to the immunity to normal weapons for purposes of determining if the damage is completely stopped or not. Otherwise, someone with some decently layered armor, channeling a Force: 3 or better spirit, would be almost invincible against firearms.