Magic in Our Schools, Arcanology 101? Options

[Hartbaine]

1. How common is magic in Shadowrun? Statistically how common are the Awakened 1 out of every 100, 1,000, 1,000,000?

2. How common is magic in your games? Besides the one mage that almost all groups should have (or adept) how often do your PCs see others working magic?

3. Do any of you believe that there is some sort of Sorcery classes offered in grade schools to introduce them to the hazards of paranormal critters or the awakened?

I know that there is college courses avail for the study of arcane, but would you think it would bleed into the lower grades?

In all fairness I'll answer my own questions, but I'd like to hear your opinions as well.

1. I honestly do not know. That's why I asked.

2. In mine, very rare. When the Runners see magic used by their opposition they immediately flip into 'oh shit' mode and begin to formulate a plan to get rid of that guy as quickly as possible. They fear it, and they should. I think if it’s too common, it loses its zazz.

3. I think so, yes. Starting in about Jr. High School, and any child who has displayed magical aptitude is more than likely sent to a 'gifted' class.

Discuss.

[ludomastro]

1. Historically, the books have said 1 in 100; however, that seems to get more dilluted each time it is mentioned. First it was mages, then mages and adepts, then mages, adepts, and anyone with Awakened abilities.

2. A PC can expect magically resistance for AAA corp runs. After all, if all shadowrunning teams have a mage it would make sense that the corp would have at least one on staff.

3. You are assuming that public school still exists, which may or may not be the case. Does it exist in the barrens? No. The slums downtown? Maybe but probably not. The city core? Yeah, most likely. Corps? Why of course.

There's my :nuyen: 2.

[Gelare]

1. I seem to recall that 1 out of every 1000 (thousand) people is a competent awakened person, which I interpret to be an adept, mystic adept, or mage with a Magic score of higher than 1 or 2. There's probably a number more who have low Magic scores.

2. Magic appears commonly in two places: research facilities (academic or corporate) and corpsec. Astral wards are all over the place, patrolling watchers are common enough, but having an actual security mage at a place is rareish. Now, on call, that's another matter. If an alarm sounds at a facility, whatever mage is on reserve duty for that place drops whatever he was doing and sends a spirit (a real one, that is, one with mental scores higher than 1 - anything that isn't a watcher) to scan things.

3. I'm willing to bet that public schooling still exists plenty. You have to have a SIN, no doubt, but there's no way the UCAS decided to ditch public schools. I think you're describing an Arcana class, but I wouldn't know since I've never read Street Magic - anyway, awakened children definitely get enrolled in special classes immediately, and I think most schools check for magical aptitude right around the age when people are supposed to awaken. Anyway, I think awakened people would be covered in History classes and the like, but awakened critters? They've got better stuff to cover (or so they believe).

So there ya go. It's true that magic should be feared by runners going up against it, but it sounds more common in the books than it does in your campaign.

0.02 :nuyen:

[Hartbaine]

[Ancient History]

[ludomastro]

[Aaron]

[Dissonance]

While I can't offer much help about the magic dealies, I can offer my knowledge from a previous SR3 book, Sprawl Survival Guide. In there was a good amount of information about the various kinds of school still in operation. Basically, if you wanted to have an education worth a damn, you'd go to either a private school or be homeschooled, what with the advent of cheap and immersive internets.

There were still public schools, and they were vastly unpleasant things that your average SINless kid could get into, on account of every warm butt in a seat being worth a certain amount of funding. And that the school would likely try and pull some strings for you and/or not really look too closely at that fake SIN you got for your kid in a box of cracker jacks.

Of course, this is information from SR3, so it may or may not be out of date. And it's apparently still going with the message that a public school is a vile, dangerous, and worthless place to be.

Y'know, I went to a public school, and it wasn't even remotely that bad. Maybe it's only really bad in big cities or something. Shrug.

[Kronk2]

Way I am thinking about it, basically 1/100 has a magic rating over say 3

[Thane36425]

The numbers have changed over time. In early editions it was closer to 1 in 1,000. Newer editions put it at closer to 1 in 100. I agree with some of the other posters that 1 in 1,000 is probably right for competent casters, which includes adepts and the rest. Those would probably be the ones who manage to take grades of initiation or have 5 and higher magic ratings, and are driven to increase their ability. The rest probably have low magic ratings, little training, etc. That could also include all the people who have magic but use it just enough to make a living and that's it.

In my games, magic was fairly common because, as shadowrunners, the characters would be more exposed to it. The every day person, however, would likely never see a real mage in action save for on the Trid. Want to have fun with the players? Have the bystanders to their next public gunfight duck for cover when the bullets start to fly, but run in a panic when the mage rips loose a spell or spirit.

Some of the older material stated that corporate grade schools had staff trained to watch for magical talent. If a child showed possibility, then a specially trained mage would come to examine the child. If they did have the Talent, they would be taken away to a magic school run by the corp. Public schools probably didn't have such things. A really talented child could stand out and a corp would be contacted and recruiters sent. Otherwise, the child might find a tutor, if they are lucky. If not, their talent may go undeveloped.

I really don't see public schools as having anything but basic magic courses, kind of a "this is what spellcasting looks like" kind of thing for the mundanes. Actual magic classes would be found elsewhere. Then again, each big city might have a "governor's school" for those with the Talent. Mages would be gathered there to teach them magic, and keep them away from other students, and where they can be watched. But I would think such a place would be heavily poached by the corps, which would make it unnecessary. Then again, various corps might actually fund such a place behind the scenes, then quiet bidding wars over the various students.

[Kronk2]

[Gelare]

[Dissonance]

Guess it really does vary from place to place. But, yeah, back to the magic thing? It's highly implied that if you're even remotely magical, you're basically going to get a buttload of offers from various parties. Especially corps. I can tell you right here that if a corp approached me while I was, say, sixteen years old, promising me a free education and a guaranteed position in their happy corporate family, I'd jump right the hell on it.

I seem to remember that shamans get a little bit shafted by the deal, because shamans have to take the concerns of their totem into consideration before getting any kind of 9 to 5 job. But this is less of a factor in SR4, what with the mentor spirit being downright optional now. Even so, I figure corp types would still rather have a hermetic.

Dunno about adepts. I'm not sure where sports are at in the 2070s. In SR3, there were still a /lot/ of sports that wouldn't even consider adepts for a professional sports team, if not banning them outright.

[Buster]

Since there isn't any way to identify an adept or detect their powers, there isn't any way to ban them from anything.

[Ancient History]

*cough* Astral perception! *cough cough* Magic Sense! *cough cough hack wheeze* results only achievable by augmented metahumans *cough hack wheeze hack urk aggh...

[Kronk2]

And what about specific programs between notable Universities? How would one codify the differences.
For Example. Texas A&M has a very militaristic point of view about their elite programs via the corps, and is academically focused on Agriculture, Veterinary Medicine, and poli-sci.

While Rice is much more technologically and research based in the pure sciences. (they have their own nanotech program no, which is awesome.!)

Where I am going, I guess is there could be university based traditions of magic.

[eidolon]

[Cweord]

My thought is corps being desperate for magical types, they would probably 'sponsor' magic classes in public schools, to help detect people with magical talent, so they can then offer them places in their corporate education programs and turn them in to nice little wage mage's.

Street Magic states that Magic Users are more valuable than Corp Execs.

I agree that people with some potential for awakened talent (knack, astral sight) might be as high in 1 in 100, but for rough figures I would use the magic rating squared for the number of hundred to 1

eg.

Magic 1 = 1 in 100
Magic 2 = 1 in 400
Magic 3 = 1 in 900 etc

[Cweord]

Scratch that, if falls apart at really high levels, but the fundamentals u to 4 work

You could of course cube it

so you get

Magic 1 = 100 to 1
Magic 2 = 800 to 1
Magic 4 = 6400 to 1
5 & 6 should be special cases in them selves, but even on these figures would be extremely rare

[DTFarstar]

Apparently you run a much lower power game than I do. In my games the average corpsec mage has a magic of 4-6 usually 5(4 is usually one with tech). In the game I play in I don't think I've run into a mage with a magic less than 6. Actually.... I know that's the case Force 12 spells tend to leave a mark on ones memory. Needless to say, counterspelling 4(spec: combat) has come in handy ALOT.


Chris

[Cweord]

I have one mage in my group with a magic of 4 or 5, but if you look at the system saying average person stat is 3, then a Magic of 6 is world class level . . . .

The nice thing about SR4 is that fact that with magic you have somewhere to go, a starting character doesn't need a magic of 6, they can develop as they go.

[DTFarstar]

Well, I doubt that chart was meant to apply to the Magic Attribute since you can with not too grievous an effort get a Magic of 8, which doesn't even appear there. I agree that characters with a magic of 3 or 4 are perfectly viable starting characters. However, usually the corpsec mages my groups run into aren't even remotely just starting at their jobs. Alot of them have initiated at least once as part of their job.

Of course, it helps that I have a real problem with the ratings being directly related to skill that way. Instead of everyone with a 6 in Longarms being a world class sniper, in my games that is reserved for people with a dice pool of 18+. Legendary is at least 24 dice.



Chris

[Cweord]

but most of the boost in magic is going to be initiation, which whilst it increases the stat, that is done purely as a game mechanic rather than a true increase of the stat.

But I can see where you are coming from.

[darthmord]

Don't forget though... SR4 Initiation only increases the maximum Magic attribute. It does nothing to the current value.

Non-Initiate:
Magic: 3
Initiate Grade: 0
Max Magic: 6

Grade 1 Initiate:
Magic: 3
Initiate Grade: 1
Max Magic: 7