Possession Power using an Invoked spirit, apparent contradiction in the wording Options

[pbangarth]

On page 102 of Street Magic, we are told in the sidebar on Possession and Vessels that the Possessing spirit adds its Force to Physical Attributes of a living vessel or to appropriate stats of a non-living vessel. Easy: a Force 4 spirit adds 4 to the Attributes of the host (within augmented racial maxima) no matter what the actual Physical Attributes of the spirit in question. (eg.: a Guardian spirit has BOD=Force +1, whereas a Water spirit has BOD=Force+2.)

On page 57 of Street Magic, we are told in the Invoking Test Table that "Each net hit over 5 adds 1 point to each of the great form spirit's materialized or possession Physical attributes" (emphasis mine).

So in an example, say a great form spirit is invoked with 8 successes, leaving 3 net hits above 5, it is clear a materialized spirit would have Physical Attributes 3 greater than the basic. It is also clear that a spirit summoned by a possession tradition magician would also gain these 3 points to Physical Attributes in the Astral Plane.

But what about when that spirit possesses something/someone in the Material Plane? The Invoking Test Table suggests that a Force 4 great form spirit with 3 net successes above 5 on the Invoking test would add 7 to the Physical Attributes of the host. (again limited by the augmented racial maxima.)

Is this how others read it?

[hyzmarca]

Yes. Up to the combind beings augmented max of (Host's augemented max) + Spirit's Force*1.5

[darthmord]

So what would be the stats of a flesh form Inhabitation spirit?

Under the Inhabitation sidebars, it talks about the True Form being attributes as normal for a Manifesting spirit. It also notes that for a hybrid form, the spirit's attributes and host form attributes are added together. Under Flesh Form (really good merge), it says NOTHING about stats.

Yet other sections talking about flesh form merges & attributes refer back here.

[laughingowl]

although one wonders how you are getting 24+ dice on an invoking + magic test....

[tisoz]

[Big D]

Yeah, Flesh Form is rather confusing. Based on what the writers have posted here, my understanding is that Flesh Form is *exactly* like Hybrid form, except where specifically stated otherwise (after all, Flesh Form says nothing about DNI, either).

So, an Inhabited F6 Ally adds 6 to each physical stat, replaces existing mental stats with 6s, has 6 M, and whatever E the summoner had at the time.

[pbangarth]

[Big D]

Yes, there's a long story behind that rule, and I can never keep it straight.

Short version is, there was originally no cap at all, and there was an exploit to massively augment physical stats (I think it *was* from invoking). The 1.5x rule specifically counters that, while allowing possessing/inhabiting spirits to add their full force to physical stats.

So, yes, my understanding (it's already been corrected a couple of times) is that a F6 normal spirit dropped in a maxed-out augmented human would have physical stats of 15, and an invoked F6 could potentially achieve 18.

[DTFarstar]

Yeah, the only time the Stat +Force x1.5 really comes into play is when you invoke a spirit. If you get 8 invoking successes then there is a decent chance you can't take advantage of all of that if it was a low force spirit or you were already augmented(POssesing the SS or adept)


Chris