 Dungeons & Hollywood, TSR and the motion picture industry |
  |
 Sep 21 2007, 06:33 AM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 609 Joined: 13-August 07 Member No.: 12,615  |
If I remember correctly, D&D became popular in the late 70's and early 80's. Also at this time, a number of sword and sorcery/fantasy films were released: the Conan movies, Dragonslayer, Krull, Beastmaster, Excalibur and others. Was D&D the catalyst (no pun intended) for this? Or were both phenomena a manifestation of the same popular zeitgeist?
|
 |
 
|
|
Sep 21 2007, 01:38 PM
Post
#2
|
|
|
ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
I don't know. I haven't made any kind of study of it or anything, but weren't the Conan books fairly popular in their own right? I had always assumed that Conan was the catalyst for those movies, but you gotta know that every D&D player was standing in line opening night. :D
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 21 2007, 06:37 PM
Post
#3
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 609 Joined: 13-August 07 Member No.: 12,615 |
They were. Plus there were at least to comic adaptations at the time. I've always wondered what caused the sword and sorcery resurgence of the late 70's. Perhaps the public was just waiting for something "new", and the films/books/comics/rpgs filled that need.
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 21 2007, 06:43 PM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
I'm pretty sure they both arose thanks to the same cause. 1937 saw the release of the Hobbit, and that is notable because it was widely accepted as merely a children's book because it was fantasy. It wasn't until the 50's and 60's that science fiction and fantasy began to really pick up steam in fiction, which means it wasn't until the 70's that it made it into the movies and other media.
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 21 2007, 06:43 PM
Post
#5
|
|||
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
People who grew up reading Lord of the Rings. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Sep 21 2007, 06:44 PM
Post
#6
|
|
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Great minds! :D
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 21 2007, 07:14 PM
Post
#7
|
|
|
The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
When I first looked at the title, I immediately thought this would be about Mazes and Monsters with Tom Hanks.
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 23 2007, 12:41 AM
Post
#8
|
|||||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Very much so. I think the first big LOTR craze hit when D&D was becoming popular. And remember that D&D was derived from Chainmail, a wargame, and that LOTR is largely about gigantic battles counterbalanced with brave hobbits. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Sep 23 2007, 06:44 AM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,944 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
There was that little movie known as Star Wars, too. Many called it a Space Fantasy.
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 23 2007, 08:45 AM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I've heard it mostly referenced as a Space Western. :)
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 23 2007, 08:58 AM
Post
#11
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 102 Joined: 9-June 07 Member No.: 11,880 |
Or a big pile of crap. don't get me wrong, this is just my opinion but the hero's in my storys arn't whinny bastards. thank god for han the true hero of star wars. And when they brought in the care bears, that ruined that triolgy. 30 years later what do we get, a whinny bastard who cant be a convincing villain. And thats my humble opinion. StarWars fans i apologize for my drunken rant but luke is a Bitch and so was his dad
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 23 2007, 11:02 AM
Post
#12
|
|
|
Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
What are you talking about?? Star Wars is a tragedy about a man who gets a successful, corporate career, before his whiney, half-wit son goes around breaking everything. It's a great movie about the ineptitude of our youth.
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 23 2007, 11:38 AM
Post
#13
|
|||
|
Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,944 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
With Magic and Swords? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Sep 23 2007, 11:54 AM
Post
#14
|
|
|
Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
It's basically a rip-off of The Hidden Fortress. So it's a Space Period Samurai Drama.
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 23 2007, 05:05 PM
Post
#15
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,326 Joined: 15-April 02 Member No.: 2,600 |
I've always heard it referred to as a Space Opera, which is an update of the term "Horse Opera", which doesn't have anything to do with opera as much as the old Saturday matinee serials. But I suppose that's here nor there.
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 23 2007, 08:59 PM
Post
#16
|
|||
|
Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Pfft. Han Solo was nearly as whiny as everyone else in that movie. In fact, the only main character who wasn't a whiny little bitch at one point or another was R2-D2. The closest he came to being whiny was when he was reluctant to do something mundane, like roll around in a swamp or battle a crazy old man to keep his flashlight. That aside, he was also the only character in all six movies (I believe) who was truly brave and risked life and limb to save everyone, not because he had to, but because it was the right thing to do. No question, no hesitation. That said, Tolkien was definitely the source of the fantasy explosion, with Conan being not too far behind (at least as far as the Conan movies goes). There's little question about that, especially since large chunks of D&D were trying to take advantage of the popularity, too. Hence the inclusion of Hobbits (who were later forced to be renamed Halflings). D&D had about as much to do with those early movies and popularity as Shadowrun had to do with the rise of cyberpunk in the 80's and 90's. They were a result of it, not the cause. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Sep 23 2007, 10:33 PM
Post
#17
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,532 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Calgary, Canada Member No.: 769 |
The big thing with Conan is that during the 70's L. Sprauge Du Camp *spits* got his mitts on the publishing rights and republished them. Of course he "fixed" them first making Conan a nice PC kinda guy trying to ram them into a timeline and generally fucking with the original stories which were some of the best examples of pulp fiction ever written. He and Arnold did such a good job of turning Conan into campy 80's garbage that now that ReH's originals are finally being republished in their entirety people have this bizarre and totally off base view of who Conan is.
Sorry... That wasn't completely on topic... ReH is one of my favorite authors and the crap that was done to his characters pisses me off. Don't even get me started on Kull, and I've sworn to shoot the first producer who starts babbleing about making a Solomon Kane movie. I'd say that (movie) Conan had a profound effect on early D&D. You really only need to look at the artwork from the early modules to get the idea that the idea of bare chested men with perfect hair rescuing underwear clad women from evil sorcerers was what the game was all about. |
|
|
|
|
Sep 23 2007, 11:35 PM
Post
#18
|
|||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Hey, listen man. Back when I was a student at Cornell I was able to read a few unedited Conan stories because I found some old original editions in the school library. It was the most engaging fiction I ever read. How can I find the republished un-edited originals today? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Sep 24 2007, 04:27 AM
Post
#19
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 609 Joined: 13-August 07 Member No.: 12,615 |
Borders, if you live near one. If not, they're published by Del Rey books, so you can just go to their site and order online. I think the addy is delrey.com, or maybe delreybooks.com; can't remember which.
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 24 2007, 04:48 AM
Post
#20
|
|||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
But how can I tell if they've been edited by Le Camp or not? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Sep 24 2007, 04:56 AM
Post
#21
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 609 Joined: 13-August 07 Member No.: 12,615 |
The current releases are exactly as Howard wrote them. The series editor is Rusty Burke; the editor for the first volume is Patrice Louinet. The other volumes I don't have, but it looks like De Camp had nothing to do with it.
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 24 2007, 05:10 AM
Post
#22
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,532 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Calgary, Canada Member No.: 769 |
Yeah, Du Camp had nothing to do with them.
The Anthology titles are: The Coming of Conan the Crimmerian The Bloody Crown of Conan The Conquering Sword of Conan You can also get the "Savage Tales of Solomon Kane" "Bran Mok Moron, The Last King" and "Kull Exile of Atlantis" They are amazingly well done books, each story is written in the order that it was published, with no attempts at ramming it into some sort of timeline. The only thing that has been changed is some spelling errors and each one is annotated in an appendix with the orriginal manuscript spelling beside it. It's actually kind of interesting, you can really see how Howard was very much a self taught writer. You'll see a spelling mistake in an early peice and then later on he'll have corrected his spelling. There is also a new anthology out The Best of Robert E. Howard. I havn't read it yet but it appears to simply be a collection of his work spanning different characters. Not sure if I'll pick it up as I completed my collection of most of my favorite characters of his. His Westerns and Boxing fiction never grabbed me. Some of his horror writing can be quite interesting too though so I may have to give it a read and see if there is any of that in it. Just as a warning to anyone who might be interested in Conan... Remember Howard was a Texan writing in the 20's and 30's... Conan is NOT politically correct. There is quite a bit of stuff that modern readers could find offensive. Vale of the Lost Women springs to mind, as one that no one outside of the klan would write today... The whole first half of the story basically consists of "dem darkies gonna rapes our white wemenfolk's". Like I said, Du-Camp PC'd it up considerably. |
|
|
|
|
Sep 25 2007, 09:41 PM
Post
#23
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 946 Joined: 16-September 05 From: London Member No.: 7,753 |
If you're going to talk about Conan [the tales of which are great reading]..
..I will utter a name of much power.. Thrud !! |
|
|
|
|
Sep 25 2007, 09:42 PM
Post
#24
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 946 Joined: 16-September 05 From: London Member No.: 7,753 |
Also..
..Conan stories are actually part of the HP Lovecraft mythos, too [if I recall correctly]. |
|
|
|
|
Sep 25 2007, 09:59 PM
Post
#25
|
|||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Whoa! If that's the case, any Cthulu RPG should let you play Conan. Be a rugged noble savage whose primal vitality and closeness to the earth insulates you from such philosophical questions as would destroy the minds of depressive investigators from 1910. The "Barbarian" class would be analgous to the overpowered monks from 1st edition D&D. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 29th April 2024 - 03:49 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.