Anti-magic weapons and armor for mundanes, Rise of the Muggles |
Anti-magic weapons and armor for mundanes, Rise of the Muggles |
Sep 28 2007, 01:12 PM
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#1
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
Here are some ideas I came up with for some house rules on anti-magic protection for mundane opponents of magic-wielding runner teams and for players who want to play mundanes.
Anti-magic weapons, armor, and gear:
Ideas/Suggestions/Tweaks/Clarifications? |
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Sep 28 2007, 01:17 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 315 Joined: 12-October 03 From: Germany, Regensburg Member No.: 5,709 |
50% is a house rule, as "Immunity to Normal Weapons" means "Immunity against any non-magical attack" (according to the description of the critter power in the Core Book). I don't see why you mention Stick-n-Shock ammo for pistols/smgs, as I don't know any limitations that would forbid these :-) Personally, I don't like most of these ideas. They would fit into a "GURPS Technomancer" Settings, where combination of Magic/Technology is more common, but somehow it doesn't feel right to me to build many "Anti-Magic" weapons. If a Samurai can shoot everything, mages loose one more of their special abilities... |
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Sep 28 2007, 01:26 PM
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#3
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
True, but I was just trying to reduce the "stand back, let me handle this!" situations that we get a lot with magicians and hackers in Shadowrun. Everyone else sits around the table for what seems like forever while the magician or hacker has his moment. Plus I wanted to make mundane opponents more of a threat to magicians.
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Sep 28 2007, 01:27 PM
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#4
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Target Group: Members Posts: 45 Joined: 25-November 03 From: Harrisburg, PA Member No.: 5,848 |
Devil Rat-apults
Just fling high-velocity dual natured creatures at those pesky spirits! Replace Lunargent with tinfoil, and it's a go! (Grabs his helmet.) |
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Sep 28 2007, 01:27 PM
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#5
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
LOL, that's awesome. Alchemically purified radical tinfoil is also called "mithril" depending on your copyright jurisdiction.
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Sep 28 2007, 01:47 PM
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#6
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,269 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 9,421 |
I don't know what kind of crazy magicians or poorly equipped shadowrunners you have in your game, but in both the one I GM and the one I play in the mages stay in the back and support the rest of the team, counterspelling etc. when there is an opposing mage I will sometimes stunbolt or manabolt the crap out of the spirit because that IS the easiest way to kill it. If you make all these spirit killer weapons then you need to kill the enchanting material prices because you make their use outside of spell effect batteries close to nil. A good sniper rifle can rip a force 7 or below spirit to shreds already with decent ammo. S&S reduces their armors by half so INW 12 becomes 6 which is easy to pass already with any standard pistol.
And guns kill the hell out of mages that aren't sustaining christmas trees, suffering huge sustaining penalties, or using the "my ally sustains them all" method. And there are mundane ways around all those already. Sorry, I just don't understand the need for this stuff. Chris |
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Sep 28 2007, 01:51 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 315 Joined: 12-October 03 From: Germany, Regensburg Member No.: 5,709 |
Mundanes are a great threat to magicians, just not to spirits :-) And these "Stand back, let me handle this" situations you also have with sams/adepts - because they normaly get 1-3 initiative phases more than the magicians... Magicians throw one spell and then watch the sams/adepts having a good time. |
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Sep 28 2007, 02:05 PM
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#8
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
"Make mundanes a threat to magicians"? This is a game where the in-world motto is "geek the mage first". :D
Gotta agree with you on that one, for sure. I don't really understand the recent movement of "let's make it to where nobody has an actual role, and so that everyone is essentially playing the same character type: the I can do anything and don't need anyone else's help for anything character". I have my theories, but they aren't worth arguing with anyone about. |
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Sep 28 2007, 02:31 PM
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#9
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I'm usually the first to pipe in against 'anti-magic' stuff, but I think in this case Buster might have a good idea buried in his original post.
Symbiotes. These additions to the Shadowrun world could conceivably be used to provide some kind of counterspelling bonus. |
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Sep 28 2007, 02:37 PM
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#10
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
I agree, Fortune. Perhaps a genetically altered FAB variety which could provide some magic resistance either as per the quality or the adept power......
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Sep 28 2007, 02:38 PM
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#11
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
Such as? This thread is about mundane methods vs magic-wielding characters. Feel free to start a separate thread about whether or not it's necessary. If you have something constructive to add to this thread I'd be happy to hear it. |
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Sep 28 2007, 02:40 PM
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#12
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
Thanks for the back handed compliment. What's with you guys today? |
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Sep 28 2007, 02:45 PM
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#13
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
I'm just gonna laugh and y'all are gonna have to trust me.
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Sep 28 2007, 02:54 PM
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#14
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...at Aeon Labs this is just one of the angles we are working on. Aeon Labs --Dedicated to a solution to the magical threat through technology |
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Sep 28 2007, 03:03 PM
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#15
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Mundane method vs. magic-weilding characters can be found in Shadowrun Fourth Edition, in the Street Gear chapter, under the headings "anything that you can use to kill people."
AH: If I even remotely understand what you're getting at, I hate you. In the most pleasant way. I feel "ignoring large sections of upcoming books" coming on. Minor modmin note: Members don't "own" or control their threads on here. If posts truly don't belong in a thread, or if someone is really being disruptive/breaking forum rules, the staff will handle it. |
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Sep 28 2007, 03:20 PM
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#16
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
But feel free to start a separate thread about whether or not mundane anti-magic weapons are actually necessary. :D |
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Sep 28 2007, 04:33 PM
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#17
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
No need to wait! There are many things to hate me for now. Like the glow symbiont. |
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Sep 28 2007, 04:39 PM
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#18
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Personally I just tailor the number and strength of magical opponents the PCs cross based on the PC team's make-up. If there isn't any magic on the team, and the PCs don't actively seek it out in the game, and I don't hear any different, then I run on the premise that the players aren't particularly interested in the magical bits of SR.
SR is big enough to play that way and still have lots to do. P.S. But I understand some people would rather the psuedo-magic turned up rather than the magic turned down. Just saying there is another side to the equation to keep magic PCs/NPCs from running ruckshod. |
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Sep 28 2007, 04:50 PM
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#19
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
We just have to understand that the mages got their boost with Street Magic. Arsenal is where we get guns, lots of guns.
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Sep 28 2007, 05:42 PM
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#20
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...lots of really BIG guns :grinbig:
(...at least I hope...) |
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Sep 28 2007, 05:50 PM
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#21
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
True they got a boost there. But overall they had a distinct edge right in the BBB. Oh, and if my intepretation of AH's hint is correct there will be at least a moderate leveling of the field in Arsenal. But look outside the Big Guns section for it. |
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Sep 28 2007, 06:36 PM
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#22
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
I'm expecting a bunch of other things in Arsenal besides just guns. But that's the next book I'd look in for street sams to get a leg up on killing stuff.
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Sep 28 2007, 06:55 PM
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#23
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
#1 is valid, and my PCs generally have several elemental effect weapons on hand (tasers, flame-throwers and the like) specifically for that purpose.
#2 doesn't work. Astral bodies effectively have 0 mass. All you'd be doing is basically forcing the spirit into astral combat with the item in question, similar to the rules for foci going through wards. Generally that means the spirit loses. #3 You have to be physically connected to your weapon, so that doesn't work. Nor do enchanted flashlights. A taser could work, however, since it's on a cord. #4 Wrong story, sorry :P Spirits aren't made of negative energy. #5 Symbiotes have potential. Make a symbiotic version of FAB. Then you're effectively dual-natured, although continuous use would probably kill the symbiotes over time. #6 I believe traditionally it's cold iron. Shadowrun has never said anything on the topic either way, however. There's nothing to confirm or deny such a theory. #7 Radioactive 'talisman' would work, but it would either be too weak or run out of power relatively quickly. Remember, the way radioactive materials work is by losing their radioactivity. If you get something powerful enough to seriously increase the background count, it's either very large or very fresh. Regardless, it'll play havoc with the attacker (stock up on potassium iodide). So some good ideas, some... not :P Sorry. I did a very high-level, , 5th age Shadowrun game where a character, in order to fight a super-high level spirit (imagine Twist fighting Spider) set off a few dirty bombs in the area. |
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Sep 28 2007, 07:06 PM
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#24
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,269 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 9,421 |
I was trying to be constructive, I was just saying there are alot of ways to accomplish what you were going for already in place. Anyway, unless I have a specific idea to add I'll step back because apparently me and Buster don't get along that well. I always seem to offend on accident.
Chris |
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Sep 28 2007, 08:12 PM
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#25
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Target Group: Members Posts: 89 Joined: 8-September 07 From: Boston, England Member No.: 13,170 |
Large calibre lead rounds, with a solid radioactive core might work, the lead would protect from the radiation till the round hit and the lead expanded. Of course this would have to be in really high calibre rounds to have any effect.
The spirit bullet idea is ok, but you would probably only end up doing force damage against other spirits, and the spirits would not be happy being summoned to do this . . . |
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