Bat Shaman, It says they exist... Options

[Hartbaine]

Any idea what a Bat Mentor Spirit would have as far as perks and drawbacks? I've been twisting with this for some time and no luck.

ADV: +2 Dice for Perception and Assensing tests, +2 Dice for detection spells

DIS: Character is stricken blind and may only use 'sonar' to see. This functions like the Ultrasound vision enhancement. They may still percieve their surroundings but finer details or most combat actions become difficult. Also, too much stimuli may 'blind' the poor sap.

That's what I got. Any any ieads, changes? Perhaps compelled to wear tights and chase down clowns?

[kzt]

You keep encountering weird costumed freaks, but get the ability to create "Those toys! Where does he get those wonderful toys?"

[ixombie]

One big problem: per the RAW, you can't cast spells through ultrasound. You must be able to see your target with vision or something that approximates vision that you buy with essence. Ultrasound does not directly observe a target, it only hears sound reflecting off a target and then makes a visual representation of the sound. Thus, your bat shaman would be a useless caster who could never cast spells at non-astrally active targets, ever.

Also, totem disadvantages never grant free special abilities... Even though your special ability is nerfy in a way, it also goes against what every other totem does. And ultrasound vision is equivalent to two adept powers, not just one - you need both the voice control and the hearing mods to have sonar as an adept. That's not so much a disadvantage, as it is two free adept powers for 5 points without you needing to be an adept or spend power points. Nerfy though ultrasound may be for a mage, that bat won't fly.

Your advantages are fine. But I would simply replace your disadvantage with either a -1 penalty for all actions during the day, or maybe even a Willpower + Charisma (3) test to stay awake during the day. But I'd probably make the advantages a little more powerful in exchange for the latter one.

[eidolon]

Per SR3, they got bonuses to detection and manipulation spells (+2 dice) and for spirits of the sky (+1 die), and penalties to all magical target numbers while in direct sunlight (+2 to all TNs, you could translate that to -2 dice).

[mfb]

bats actually have pretty good eyesight. not great, but they're far from blind.

[Nikoli]

It's the symbolism of "Blind as a bat"

[DTFarstar]

Ixombie, you do realize that sight is the brains interpretation of light waves as it is reflected off of objects right? I mean, I know by RAW Ultrasound doesn't work, but I'm just saying it is a very similar type of sight.

Chris

[ruknabard]

perhaps:

Disadvantage: Bat is hunter, but is often single-minded in his approach. Like his name sake, a bat-shaman often "zeros in" on his prey and swoops directly to the attack. When bat shamans become focused on a goal they often loose sight of the world around them. Bat shamans must make a Willpower + Charisma (3) test in order to break away once they have single-minded focused on a goal.

Or something like that, inspired by all-mighty Wikipedia


How's about this, I scratch your back, you scratch mine...I've a player who wants to play a weasel shaman, but I've fallen flat on my face for inspiration...Ideas?/

[Mercer]

Totems typically represent the spirit of the animal, the basis of which tends to predate reliable data from the biological sciences. Bat totems would probably be considered at home in the dark or dealing with secret things, irrespective of how the actual animal perceives. (It's not like my Wolf Shaman gets discriminatory scent, for example.) That said, I'd be tempted to go with eidolon's SR3 update.

@ruknabard: All I know is weaseling out of things is what separates Man from the animals. Except for the weasel. Seeing's how weasels are to me somewhere between rats and raccoons, that's where I'd start looking for a weasel spirit.

[Serial_Peacemake...]

Hurm, well weasels are pretty much the smallest mammalian hunters. So give +1 to combat, and probably +2 to con, since 'Weaselly" is usually associated with being a bit untrustworthy. Maybe make them a bit of a kleptomaniac since they are known as pests for stealing chickens.

[crash2029]

Mentor Spirit: Weasel

Adv: +2 dice to combat spells, +2 dice to Beast spirits, +1 die to Intimidate tests, +1 box overflow damage

Disads: May go berserk as per bear & will not retreat as per Wolf

Notes: Weasels may be seen in contemporary thought as lawyer [or used-car salesman] like, however they are vicious little buggers that take on much larger creatures and make said creatures run away crying. Let us not forget two closley related, rather renowned species, the Badger, and the legendary Wolverine.
Don't mess with weasels unless you like bleeding.

[Apathy]

I think it's the perception humans have of the animal that defines the totem characteristics more than the reality. So if you wanted a combat weasel-like totem, then you'd need to call it wolverine.

Weasels may be (pound for pound) fierce creatures in reality, but I don't think popular consensus percieves them that way. I'd focus on the conniving sneaky aspect. (maybe bonus to sneak and con?).

[DTFarstar]

Apparently you have never been attacked by a weasel... freaking demons they are, you almost have to kill the damn things to get them to let go. I've never been attacked, but I've seen it happen and those freaky little bastards kinda scare me now.

Chris

[ruknabard]

Just cooked this up...what do you guys think?/

Weasel

Weasel is an opportunist of the highest order. Both stealthy and a hunter, Weasel uses his natural guiles to overcome opponents. He prefers skullduggery, but is a worthy opponent when forced to stand his ground. Weasel is concerned chiefly with his own well being, often exploiting others to survive. He is only as loyal as much as his friends are charitable.

Advantages: +2 dice for Combat spells, +2 dice to either Infiltration or Con (player’s choice).

Disadvantage: A Weasel magician must succeed on a Willpower + Charisma (3) test to avoid taking advantage of someone else’s weakness, or from stealing when he thinks he is unobserved.

[bardnoir]

who would have guessed this from an organic slinky!

But I still agree with Apathy - an "Owl" is not more "wise" than any other creature if anything it too (in reality) could be considered somewhat of a 'berserker' but then at the core aren't all animals? I mean let's talk about the "Beta Totem" while we're at it.

But it's true that the "spirit" of the creature is what forms the basis of the totem, not the reality. This is why cat is "playful" when most of my cats are just "lazy". Seriously I have 1 that just wants to swipe at the toy but not exert the effort to actually get up and chase the toy. He also hates when his cat treats are too far away from his pillow.
8)

[bardnoir]

[Moon-Hawk]

[ixombie]

[Fortune]

Badgers?! We don't need no stinking badgers! ;)

[DTFarstar]

I was just trying to tweak your nose, but anyway, I know they aren't the same thing, but they are similar. Way closer than say touch or taste. Also, the process of ultrasound is similar in that while the sound is generated at you, it is still sent out and reflected off of objects and that is how they are measured and "seen" similar to the way that the type of shape, color, and size we see is dependent upon how the light from a source(this case the sun or a lightbulb or something) reflects off of an object and certain wavelengths are absorbed(in this case causing color).... huh, is sound partially absorbed for the same reason? I dunno. Anyway, I mean yeah you get specific enough and there are HUGE differences between our sight and the sight of someone who is red-green colorblind when it comes to the brain physiology and reaction to certain sights. I was just pointing out that the two are more similar than people would think at first and that the only real reason I think they restrict mages that way is game balance issues not otherwise.

Again, all just my observations and I wasn't trying to get you riled up, was just kinda kidding around.

Chris

[Apathy]

[laughingowl]

[Whipstitch]

Weasels are great athletes, but they're ravenous li'l buggers with a metabolism that runs at a truly high idle. Perhaps a bonus to gymnastics and a small lifestyle cost increase or fatigue test penalty would be appropriate.

Also, shrews are technically predators; the Etruscan pygmy shrew eats like 3 times its own body weight in insects per day. Of course, the thing does happen to weigh in at under a tenth of an ounce, but hey, that's still technically predation!

[ixombie]

[Hartbaine]