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> Second hand cyberware, ...Cheap gear
The Jopp
post Oct 12 2007, 02:37 PM
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Ok, havign a cyberlimb as second hand gives you somethign incredible cheap, especially as the gear installed must be the same grade.

So, a second hand arm with a cyberhand drone, radar sensor, ultrasound sensor, orientation system and other useful gear (and slightly expensive) is cut in half for 0,2 extra essence.

How do you handle second hand implants?

We've adopted that second hand cyberlimb implants cost +1 capacity per unit to represent older gear that takes slightly more space.
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DireRadiant
post Oct 12 2007, 02:43 PM
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It's also limited to standard and alpha grade ware.

If you want to control access second hand ware, one option it to require all second hand ware is only acquired in game and not in character creation.

Another is to automatically give one of the new negative qualities such as High Maintenance Implant to Mystery Mod Noise
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Dashifen
post Oct 12 2007, 03:29 PM
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From Augmentation:

QUOTE ("p. 32 @ under Second-Hand Cyberware")
Only standard and alpha-grade cyberware is available as
second-hand cyberware. Beta- and deltaware implants are too
custom-tailored and modified to be fitted to anyone other than
the person they were originally designed for.


The modifiers are as follows:

Essence: x1.2
Availablility: -1
Cost: x0.5
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Aristotle
post Oct 12 2007, 05:11 PM
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Wow... I totally missed the it could be used on alphaware. I assumed it was treated like a normal grade. It works for aplha bioware too, I assume? I may need to rethink maybe letting second hand and the bio compatibility quality stack.
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Fortune
post Oct 12 2007, 05:31 PM
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QUOTE (Aristotle)
It works for aplha bioware too, I assume?

Only the normal stuff. Not Cultured Bioware.
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Cweord
post Oct 12 2007, 05:38 PM
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I just use the optional rule in Augmentations, all second hand cyberware comes with the buggy ware flaw and roll 2d6 to see how many points

1-3 = 1
4-9 = 2
10+11 = 3
12 = 4

If it has subsystems roll for every system differently. The more they have the more likely they are to get that 4
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Aristotle
post Oct 12 2007, 08:03 PM
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QUOTE (Fortune)
Only the normal stuff. Not Cultured Bioware.

Yeah, that makes sense.
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The Jopp
post Oct 13 2007, 05:37 AM
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QUOTE (Dashifen)

The modifiers are as follows:

Essence: x1.2
Availablility: -1
Cost: x0.5

I know exactly how second hand ware works but the rules completely ignore implants inside cyberlimbs.

Basically you get 1/2 price on ALL implants inside a limb as they must be the same grade as the limb and no drawback except that the limb cost 0,2 essence more.
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Fortune
post Oct 13 2007, 05:53 AM
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Technically, Used is not a Grade. If your used cyberarm is alpha-grade, then any and all modifications and the like associated with that arm must be alpha-grade. It makes no difference if the modifications themselves are used or brand new, as long as their Grade matches.
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DTFarstar
post Oct 13 2007, 06:50 AM
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Exactly, so if I wanted, I could get an Alpha grade cyberarm, then fill it with used Alpha parts for half price with no penalty.

Chris
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bibliophile20
post Oct 13 2007, 02:01 PM
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QUOTE (DTFarstar)
Exactly, so if I wanted, I could get an Alpha grade cyberarm, then fill it with used Alpha parts for half price with no penalty.

Chris

Except that, if you tried that (at least in my game), some of those used alphaware parts would come with a few negative qualities, i.e. gremlins, mysterious mod noise, buggy ware, etc.
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Heimdalol
post Oct 14 2007, 12:41 AM
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I think the big question is why does normal ware even exist? Used alpha is the same price, more available and comes with a 4% essence savings.
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Jaid
post Oct 14 2007, 12:49 AM
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because you have to actually *have* that second hand alphaware available to buy. how often do you think someone is walking around and thinks "hey, i think i'll just go sell my wired reflexes now"? not that common. which means that it might be reasonably common in the shadows (but even then, not all that common) but it's not terribly likely to be common in proper society, due to the fact that used cyber is going to be less readily available.
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hyzmarca
post Oct 14 2007, 01:03 AM
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Sometimes, you'll want to upgrade your Alpha Wired 1 to Delta MBW 4 during your cybermancy procedure.
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Aku
post Oct 14 2007, 01:03 AM
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and even more important than that jaid, is you need to have primary ware before you can have second hand ware :D
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Spike
post Oct 14 2007, 01:04 AM
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QUOTE (Aku)
and even more important than that jaid, is you need to have primary ware before you can have second hand ware :D

Ah but now you are trying to apply real world logic to the game rules. That is strictly forbidden here.

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DTFarstar
post Oct 14 2007, 09:54 AM
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I have a feeling most second hand ware comes from people who are killed and harvested for it. That would be my guess anyway.

Chris
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Jaid
post Oct 15 2007, 12:23 AM
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QUOTE (DTFarstar)
I have a feeling most second hand ware comes from people who are killed and harvested for it. That would be my guess anyway.

Chris

right, which means that most *legitimate* stores won't have second-hand ware available. also most shadow clinics that don't have some kind of tamanous connection.

so sure, if your background says you're a ganger with tamanous connections who earned some cyber by chopping it out of other people, you can have second-hand cyber and it's reasonable.

if your background says you're a former corp wageslave, or military, or something else like that, not so likely.
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DTFarstar
post Oct 15 2007, 01:37 AM
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The main cyberware NPC in Augmentation is proud of taking any kind of ware no questions asked because even if it is mostly destroyed he still gets a small discount on buying a new one when he turns the broken one in.

Chris
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Jaid
post Oct 15 2007, 02:17 AM
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another reason why second-hand 'ware wouldn't necessarily be common: it's icky.

i mean, honestly, think of how gross the idea of second-hand underwear is.

now imagine that it's someone else's *arm*, or something (or eyeball, or whatever). also, second-hand 'ware is probably socially looked down upon. you can be made fun of for wearing an old style of clothing, imagine having cyber from 30 years ago and that isn't quite sized right for you? =P
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hyzmarca
post Oct 15 2007, 02:45 AM
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Second-hand doesn't have to be pre-installed. It could just as easily be a case of the retail store sending its Christmas cyberarms back to the warehouse in January and the warehouse selling it to a reseller so that unsellable Christmas arms won't be taking up space.
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eidolon
post Oct 15 2007, 02:02 PM
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Nah, those would still be new, just not SOTA. Second-hand usually connotes "used before" in common parlance. Also, if it wasn't pre-installed, there would be no reason for it to have quirks such as the ones given in SR3 or the ones suggested in SR4.

Also, ignoring the fact that many DSers don't think SR is cyberpunk anymore (;)), second hand (as in pre-installed) and half-broke down cyberware is a staple. Remember the eyes?! :D
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Heimdalol
post Oct 16 2007, 05:01 PM
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Based on the modifiers for second hand ware, there would be a booming trade in second hand alpha ware. Remember secondhand alpha is still more closely matched to your system (albeit only slightly). Whether it's gross or not depends on how desperately people need ware.

Anyways still doesn't change that by the rules, second hand alpha is the same price , better for you and more readily available on the black market than regular ware.
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Tarantula
post Oct 16 2007, 05:12 PM
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Is it just me, or do any of you see alpha ware as being something as little as metatype matching. Basic you can take from a human and stick in a troll, while alpha would be matched for a specific metatype.
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Serial_Peacemake...
post Oct 17 2007, 07:09 PM
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I just see it as using better parts really. I mean they go that extra little bit with I don't know a higher quality alloy, or what have you. I guess it does end up with you having a temptation to be the sort that sells everything, including that opponent you just killed. I have to ask though, in SR4 what is the going price for a living metahuman?
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