 Second hand cyberware, ...Cheap gear |
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 Oct 12 2007, 02:37 PM
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#1
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Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948  |
Ok, havign a cyberlimb as second hand gives you somethign incredible cheap, especially as the gear installed must be the same grade.
So, a second hand arm with a cyberhand drone, radar sensor, ultrasound sensor, orientation system and other useful gear (and slightly expensive) is cut in half for 0,2 extra essence. How do you handle second hand implants? We've adopted that second hand cyberlimb implants cost +1 capacity per unit to represent older gear that takes slightly more space. |
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Oct 12 2007, 02:43 PM
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#2
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
It's also limited to standard and alpha grade ware.
If you want to control access second hand ware, one option it to require all second hand ware is only acquired in game and not in character creation. Another is to automatically give one of the new negative qualities such as High Maintenance Implant to Mystery Mod Noise |
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Oct 12 2007, 03:29 PM
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#3
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
From Augmentation:
The modifiers are as follows: Essence: x1.2 Availablility: -1 Cost: x0.5 |
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Oct 12 2007, 05:11 PM
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#4
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Slacker Extraordinaire Group: Retired Admins Posts: 337 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ashburn, VA Member No.: 997 |
Wow... I totally missed the it could be used on alphaware. I assumed it was treated like a normal grade. It works for aplha bioware too, I assume? I may need to rethink maybe letting second hand and the bio compatibility quality stack.
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Oct 12 2007, 05:31 PM
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#5
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Only the normal stuff. Not Cultured Bioware. |
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Oct 12 2007, 05:38 PM
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#6
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Target Group: Members Posts: 89 Joined: 8-September 07 From: Boston, England Member No.: 13,170 |
I just use the optional rule in Augmentations, all second hand cyberware comes with the buggy ware flaw and roll 2d6 to see how many points
1-3 = 1 4-9 = 2 10+11 = 3 12 = 4 If it has subsystems roll for every system differently. The more they have the more likely they are to get that 4 |
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Oct 12 2007, 08:03 PM
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#7
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Slacker Extraordinaire Group: Retired Admins Posts: 337 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ashburn, VA Member No.: 997 |
Yeah, that makes sense. |
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Oct 13 2007, 05:37 AM
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#8
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
I know exactly how second hand ware works but the rules completely ignore implants inside cyberlimbs. Basically you get 1/2 price on ALL implants inside a limb as they must be the same grade as the limb and no drawback except that the limb cost 0,2 essence more. |
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Oct 13 2007, 05:53 AM
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#9
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Technically, Used is not a Grade. If your used cyberarm is alpha-grade, then any and all modifications and the like associated with that arm must be alpha-grade. It makes no difference if the modifications themselves are used or brand new, as long as their Grade matches.
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Oct 13 2007, 06:50 AM
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#10
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,269 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 9,421 |
Exactly, so if I wanted, I could get an Alpha grade cyberarm, then fill it with used Alpha parts for half price with no penalty.
Chris |
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Oct 13 2007, 02:01 PM
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#11
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,180 Joined: 22-January 07 From: Rochester, NY Member No.: 10,737 |
Except that, if you tried that (at least in my game), some of those used alphaware parts would come with a few negative qualities, i.e. gremlins, mysterious mod noise, buggy ware, etc. |
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Oct 14 2007, 12:41 AM
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#12
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Target Group: Members Posts: 24 Joined: 3-December 05 Member No.: 8,040 |
I think the big question is why does normal ware even exist? Used alpha is the same price, more available and comes with a 4% essence savings.
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Oct 14 2007, 12:49 AM
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#13
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
because you have to actually *have* that second hand alphaware available to buy. how often do you think someone is walking around and thinks "hey, i think i'll just go sell my wired reflexes now"? not that common. which means that it might be reasonably common in the shadows (but even then, not all that common) but it's not terribly likely to be common in proper society, due to the fact that used cyber is going to be less readily available.
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Oct 14 2007, 01:03 AM
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#14
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Sometimes, you'll want to upgrade your Alpha Wired 1 to Delta MBW 4 during your cybermancy procedure.
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Oct 14 2007, 01:03 AM
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#15
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Running, running, running Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,220 Joined: 18-October 04 From: North Carolina Member No.: 6,769 |
and even more important than that jaid, is you need to have primary ware before you can have second hand ware :D
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Oct 14 2007, 01:04 AM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 941 Joined: 25-January 07 Member No.: 10,765 |
Ah but now you are trying to apply real world logic to the game rules. That is strictly forbidden here. |
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Oct 14 2007, 09:54 AM
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#17
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,269 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 9,421 |
I have a feeling most second hand ware comes from people who are killed and harvested for it. That would be my guess anyway.
Chris |
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Oct 15 2007, 12:23 AM
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#18
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
right, which means that most *legitimate* stores won't have second-hand ware available. also most shadow clinics that don't have some kind of tamanous connection. so sure, if your background says you're a ganger with tamanous connections who earned some cyber by chopping it out of other people, you can have second-hand cyber and it's reasonable. if your background says you're a former corp wageslave, or military, or something else like that, not so likely. |
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Oct 15 2007, 01:37 AM
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#19
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,269 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 9,421 |
The main cyberware NPC in Augmentation is proud of taking any kind of ware no questions asked because even if it is mostly destroyed he still gets a small discount on buying a new one when he turns the broken one in.
Chris |
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Oct 15 2007, 02:17 AM
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#20
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
another reason why second-hand 'ware wouldn't necessarily be common: it's icky.
i mean, honestly, think of how gross the idea of second-hand underwear is. now imagine that it's someone else's *arm*, or something (or eyeball, or whatever). also, second-hand 'ware is probably socially looked down upon. you can be made fun of for wearing an old style of clothing, imagine having cyber from 30 years ago and that isn't quite sized right for you? =P |
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Oct 15 2007, 02:45 AM
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#21
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Second-hand doesn't have to be pre-installed. It could just as easily be a case of the retail store sending its Christmas cyberarms back to the warehouse in January and the warehouse selling it to a reseller so that unsellable Christmas arms won't be taking up space.
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Oct 15 2007, 02:02 PM
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#22
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Nah, those would still be new, just not SOTA. Second-hand usually connotes "used before" in common parlance. Also, if it wasn't pre-installed, there would be no reason for it to have quirks such as the ones given in SR3 or the ones suggested in SR4.
Also, ignoring the fact that many DSers don't think SR is cyberpunk anymore (;)), second hand (as in pre-installed) and half-broke down cyberware is a staple. Remember the eyes?! :D |
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Oct 16 2007, 05:01 PM
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#23
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Target Group: Members Posts: 24 Joined: 3-December 05 Member No.: 8,040 |
Based on the modifiers for second hand ware, there would be a booming trade in second hand alpha ware. Remember secondhand alpha is still more closely matched to your system (albeit only slightly). Whether it's gross or not depends on how desperately people need ware.
Anyways still doesn't change that by the rules, second hand alpha is the same price , better for you and more readily available on the black market than regular ware. |
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Oct 16 2007, 05:12 PM
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#24
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
Is it just me, or do any of you see alpha ware as being something as little as metatype matching. Basic you can take from a human and stick in a troll, while alpha would be matched for a specific metatype.
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Oct 17 2007, 07:09 PM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 29-December 06 Member No.: 10,483 |
I just see it as using better parts really. I mean they go that extra little bit with I don't know a higher quality alloy, or what have you. I guess it does end up with you having a temptation to be the sort that sells everything, including that opponent you just killed. I have to ask though, in SR4 what is the going price for a living metahuman?
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