Shadowrun and Antifa Options

[Negalith]

I’m kind of new to Shadowrun and have been reading through several books belonging to my friends. As I read through the books, I’m seeing a lot of parallels to the Antifa movement. Character depictions (minus the fantastic elements) look similar to those you may find in any Militant Anti Fascist web page. The Shadowrun world has blurred the line between corporations and government (as is the case with Fascism), both of which the shadow runners have as their primary nemesis. The evil corporations are the clearly painted as the source of most of the worlds problems. The shadowrunners are sort of anti heroes, still the good guys though also clearly challenging the establishment and taking “justice� into their own hands. I’m just wondering if others think that Shadowrun has it it’s heart an intentional similarity to Antifa dogma or if it’s all in my head.

[pbangarth]

Well, I'd never heard of Antifa till now. Hope to learn more here.

[Zhan Shi]

My guess is that it's most likely intentional.

[Kagetenshi]

Originally, Shadowrun was individualist/anti-collectivist—the major "bad guys" are all collectives, from the corporations (neo-feudalism, where the individual is sacrificed for the good of the corporation) to the bugs (never mind hive-minds, we've got literal hives) to the fascist-collectivist structure of Shadowrun Japan and the Tirs. I'm not sure if the militant anti-fascism sentiment has come to the forefront, or if you're just seeing part of what's there.

It would help if you mentioned which books you were reading, of course.

~J

[Ancient History]

Well, the Neo-Anarchists were big in first edition for a reason, and as Loose Alliances shows SR definitely doesn't ignore Antifa.

[Kyoto Kid]

[Kagetenshi]

It should also be added that Antifa, in particular, is absolutely not a supported viewpoint in most of the works—from the Neo-Anarchist's Manifesto to Shadowrunner culture, the "positively portrayed" viewpoint is essentially anarcho-capitalism (with the Megas also falling under the label "state"). Most of the Antifa movement's ideals, at least in books prior to the tail of SR3, are either ignored or actively worked against by the Shadowrunner community.

~J

[hyzmarca]

Shadowrunners fight for the right of every man woman and child, regardless of race, creed, or nationality, to shoot other men, women, and children in their faces in exchange for money.

[fistandantilus4....]

[JBlades]

[Kyoto Kid]

[martindv]

[Kagetenshi]

No, I chose not to make a judgement on the issue. Even if I were to judge Antifa as undesirable (a judgement that I simply do not have the time to do the investigation required to make), I do wholly embrace the idea of Shadowrunners pursuing ideals that are, at least to my mind, at least partly undesirable—hence why I find so much attractiveness in the anarcho-capitalist Neo-Anarchist movement.

~J

[Eurotroll]

Well, whatever the intentions of the American writers, the German versions were always a bit on the heavy side when it came to Antifa elements. (This, however, is merely my personal impression and may or may not be fatually warranted.) Most of the FanPro material (Berlin, to mention only the most obvious one) always stressed the negative reaction of the Shadows (and some elements of structured society) to such things as the credo of racism group like Humanis stand for, to the point were the official setting was that the Nights of Rage never happened in Germany: Anarchists, leftist and emancipatory groups banded together and effectively curbed the racist progroms in most German cities by patrolling the Metahuman ghettos.

While sometimes at odds with the more blatantly dystopian "every man for himself" outlook of SR, these fiats never struck me as particularly out of place -- but then again, being German, I share that sensibility to these issues with the people at FanPro that created and/or supported Antifa elements in ShadowRun. The Neo-Neonazis ("Neon-Nazis" as one sourcebook termed it) are still one of the more queasy element of the Sixth World to me -- but it never takes much work to motivate my players for Hooding runs when the skins enter into things.

[Kagetenshi]

Actually, it would be nice to see more pro-fascist Shadowrunner activity. While it fits badly with the radical individualist mainstream Shadowrunner culture, the kind of strife the Sixth World experiences is a perfect breeding ground for the idea that someone needs to step in and lead strongly from above, and policlubs should be able to provide gainful employment for at least a few 'Runners who share their ideals.

It would certainly reign in the megacorporations, which would make the philosophy even more attractive to certain members of the SINless population who might feel that the corporations are ultimately responsible for the bulk of their suffering.

~J

[Zhan Shi]

There have been very brief mention of such characters in previous SR products. Buzz, for example, was a Humanis 'runner who posted occaisionally on Shadowland. I hope the developers bring him back. I'd also like to see a Threats style sourcebook on groups such as Alamos 20K, National Aktion, and the Human Nation. Maybe they'll be covered in the upcoming Organized Crime book.

[Kagetenshi]

Very brief, and usually negative.

~J

[martindv]

Usually? That's a bit of an understatement.

[Zhan Shi]

Agreed. However, given German history, I can understand the reluctance.

[Kagetenshi]

I can understand where it comes from, but it's still deplorable to lack the self-control necessary to not put it into the game.

~J

[hyzmarca]

There is nothing particularly wrong with fascism or national socialism. They are utopia ideals which, if properly implemented, will ultimately lead to hippie kumbaya fests. The problem is that they were implemented by corrupt individuals who allowed their own prejudices and insanities to corrupt their ideals.

Antifa is essentially wrong because it exists only to oppose ideals which are grounded in peace and love. Rather, we should take back these ideals and their symbols from those who have corrupted them. Flying the Nazi flag as a banner of freedom and love, for example, would be preferable to attacking those who expresses these ideals.

[Eurotroll]

... I hope that was tongue in cheek, because boy, I don't want to get into that discussion here. :frown:

[Grinder]

Me neither.

To the german setting and the love of its writers for Antifa-ideals: I dislike it. It doesn't fit into SR, it's poorly (or better: romantically) executed and feels wrong.

[Critias]

I've got several characters that could be described as fascists; mostly in a pro-Tir sort of way.

In a world as chaotic and dangerous as Shadowrun, even the largely-real-world-negative "Fourteen Traits of Fascism" could very easily be seen as strengths rather than weaknesses. Someone brought up in such a society (Tir Tairngire being my personal favorite), particularly within their military, makes a pretty viable and believable character; one who's come up within the system, reaping the benefits of it (and the skillset and access to cyber or magic that comes with it), etc, etc. That's been the core of...well...let's just say "several" of my characters' backgrounds. Only one is an obvious and sincere metaracist/elven-supremacist, but all of them have several of Tir-flavored fascism's core tenets as foundations of their overall belief system. And why not?

Powerful nationalism, the supremacy of the military, the identification of external scapegoats, an obsession with security, and obsession with crime and punishment -- these are national/societal traits that make lots of sense in the 2060s. Who can blame a country like Tir Tairngire, as small as it is, for being a little paranoid? In a game setting where there are anti-metahuman racism charts built right into the core rulebook, is it really a bad idea for them to try and balance the scales a little by disliking humans right back? What entity powerful enough to CALL itself an entity (starting, arguably, with the street gangs themselves) isn't serious about national security and military power, in Shadowrun? Where isn't corporate/industrial power protected in this setting (as opposed to, say, labor unions)?

Now, it's true such ideals invariably (in both fiction and real life) get taken to extremes, and end up with not just a pride in one's own race or nation, but outright horrible ugly violence against others, and yadda yadda yadda all kinds of other bad stuff happens.

But at it's core, looked at as simply the outline of a belief system for a large organization (be it corporation or nation), it's hard to say Fascism doesn't make sense in Shadowrun.

[Grinder]