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> Missiles and Rockets, am I missing something?
6thDragon
post Oct 13 2007, 02:41 AM
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I read the rules on missiles and rockets again this week and couldn't believe a few of the things I read. Tell me know any of you have changed things or if you actually play with the rules as written. Maybe I'm missing something. I noticed that the cost of the disposable launcher costs twice what the fragmentation rockets cost! To me that's just rediculous. I think they should cost 500. Also comparing the rules for firing rockets compared to missiles. With missiles you use heavy weapons plus the intelligence of the missile (max 3). If firing a rocket you use heavy weapons plus agility. This way, unless you have a very low agility you'd be better off using rockets. Am I missing something?
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kzt
post Oct 13 2007, 03:17 AM
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Probably not. The combat rules seem mostly written by people who learned everything they know from comic books and bad movies.
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Zen Shooter01
post Oct 13 2007, 03:20 AM
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Kzt has a point.

I play missiles as AGI + HW + missile intelligence.
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Buster
post Oct 13 2007, 03:29 AM
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I'm not sure why missiles have a limit of rating 3, don't they have drone brains (limit rating 6)?
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Kyoto Kid
post Oct 13 2007, 03:56 AM
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QUOTE (Buster)
I'm not sure why missiles have a limit of rating 3, don't they have drone brains (limit rating 6)?

...basically missile guidance would be similar to a pilot programme so one would think that anyone with programming skill could tweak it.
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DTFarstar
post Oct 13 2007, 06:46 AM
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IF writing is still going on for Arsenal, they need to take a look at the Javelin missile system we have today and then upgrade it.

Chris
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kzt
post Oct 13 2007, 07:05 AM
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What comic book does the Javelin appear in? 8)
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Kyoto Kid
post Oct 13 2007, 07:06 AM
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...good one :grinbig:
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ShadeRavnos
post Oct 13 2007, 07:09 AM
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Ok, this may not be the right area for this but it does deal with heavy weapons.

The Panther Assault Cannon... Fires in single shot only, there for really no recoil... But it has a recoil compensation of (1). Now bringing up the fact that it's fireing small tank ammo... what kind of recoil should this monster kick with one shot??
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Riley37
post Oct 13 2007, 08:41 AM
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If the Striker is just a launching tube with a trigger grip and a ring sight, could it be as cheap as $100? That's what I'd guess, if there's a competitive market.

The other rocket launcher in BBB can selectively feed any of four different ammo types to its tubes, but there aren't four different ammo types... well, unless you mix rockets and missiles.

Also, the -6 AP on antivechicle rockets should apply to anything it hits directly, because a jet of white-hot gas (directed by the shaped charge effect) will go through body armor just as well as vehicle armor; but does not apply to the blast radius damage. In case you're hitting a big spirit, or a troll adept with body armor AND magical armor, or something else that might survive 16DV -2AP.
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FriendoftheDork
post Oct 13 2007, 08:52 AM
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Heh, didn't even know this part of sillyness. SO house ruled. I also dislike the fact that rockets and missiles have identical damage when in RL a missile launcher is a much better penetrator (and often more explosive) than a rocket launcher, especially a light disposable one such as LAW.
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hobgoblin
post Oct 13 2007, 09:51 AM
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i suspect that much of the "artifacts" we see are conversion issues.

as in, things that show up because the rules system have been changed, and people write old stuff over into the new system.

edit:

did a bit of reading, and i would allow the user to use a missiles sensor rating to do a active targeting test.

also, the sensor rating of the missile directly affect scatter. so any scatter below 4 meters are nullified out of the box.

those two in combo can imo result in a fairly accurate area effect weapon...
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Riley37
post Oct 13 2007, 10:24 AM
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QUOTE (FriendoftheDork)
a missile launcher is a much better penetrator (and often more explosive) than a rocket launcher

Huh? Launchers don't do damage; rockets/missiles do damage. I'd bet long odds that what you're calling a "missile launcher" fires missiles that are also rockets, no? The SR4 usage of "rocket" = unguided and dumb vs. "missile" = target-seeking is perhaps an odd wording choice, but where are you drawing the line between "missile" and "rocket"? The AIR-2 Genie is a "rocket" (in USAF usage, not SR4 usage) and carries a nuclear warhead.

As for the Panther.. if you give it Recoil 3, then a person using its shockpad and firing prone with a bipod gets enough RC for no penalty; anyone here ever fired a comparable weapon, and if so, would that be appropriate? (I'm not aware of a similar RL weapon, but maybe an antitank rifle?)
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hobgoblin
post Oct 13 2007, 10:49 AM
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about rockets vs missiles, look at the armament of a apache.

the hydra is a rocket, it will fly straight ahead and thats about it.

the hellfire is a missile, and can be guided by infrared, radar or laser.
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Aaron
post Oct 13 2007, 01:42 PM
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QUOTE (ShadeRavnos)
The Panther Assault Cannon... Fires in single shot only, there for really no recoil... But it has a recoil compensation of (1). Now bringing up the fact that it's fireing small tank ammo... what kind of recoil should this monster kick with one shot??

I can see this being here for two reasons.

First, all recoil penalties count over the course of an IP, so if for some reason you're two-fisting assault cannons, you'd have other problems, but not recoil.

Second, if Arsenal is like similar books from previous editions, there will be rules for modifying your Panther Assault Cannon to fire in semi-automatic mode (or, god forbid, full-auto).
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Dender
post Oct 13 2007, 03:20 PM
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... If you're two fisting Panther cannons, and it doesn't kill whatever you're shooting, you have bigger problems than worrying about recoil
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hobgoblin
post Oct 13 2007, 03:23 PM
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full-auto phanter?!
something like this?:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocannon
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Ed_209a
post Oct 13 2007, 04:50 PM
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If you want a really good example of what the panther cannon might look/act like, look up the Barrett XM109. It fires a variety of 25mm grenades at 2600 fps
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bibliophile20
post Oct 13 2007, 05:40 PM
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QUOTE (Ed_209a)
If you want a really good example of what the panther cannon might look/act like, look up the Barrett XM109. It fires a variety of 25mm grenades at 2600 fps

No, if you want a really good example of what the panther cannon might look/act like, consider the portable hand cannon that the gangers were carrying around in RoboCop. 8)
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hobgoblin
post Oct 13 2007, 05:46 PM
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that was a dressed up barret...
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bibliophile20
post Oct 13 2007, 05:48 PM
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QUOTE (hobgoblin)
that was a dressed up barret...

Then I have to give kudos to the costume department, because, normally, dressing up doesn't give you superpowers, as the label on the Superman costume is so fond of reminding us. :D
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Zen Shooter01
post Oct 13 2007, 06:08 PM
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I think the Panther is more comparable to the .50 BMG Barrets than the 25mm.
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hobgoblin
post Oct 13 2007, 06:21 PM
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btw, about the subtitle:
yes, your target :silly:
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hobgoblin
post Oct 13 2007, 06:23 PM
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QUOTE (bibliophile20)
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Oct 13 2007, 01:46 PM)
that was a dressed up barret...

Then I have to give kudos to the costume department, because, normally, dressing up doesn't give you superpowers, as the label on the Superman costume is so fond of reminding us. :D
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bibliophile20
post Oct 13 2007, 07:27 PM
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QUOTE (hobgoblin)
QUOTE (bibliophile20 @ Oct 13 2007, 06:48 PM)
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Oct 13 2007, 01:46 PM)
that was a dressed up barret...

Then I have to give kudos to the costume department, because, normally, dressing up doesn't give you superpowers, as the label on the Superman costume is so fond of reminding us. :D

I'm not referring to RoboCop's gun, I'm referring to the handcannon that the ganger uses to blow up the car after the cops go on strike.
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