 NPC effectivness cannot be measured by BP cost, A Rant |
  |
 Oct 15 2007, 06:48 PM
Post
#76
|
|
|
Immortal Elf  Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670  |
i just did my book. SR4 page 149, second paragraph under Armor and Encumbrance, last sentence: "If a character is wearing multiple armor items, add their ratings together before comparing to Body." the same paragraph you've been quoting as not applying to worn armor says that it applies to worn armor.
|
 |
 
|
|
Oct 15 2007, 06:50 PM
Post
#77
|
|||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
You're right. Didn't check the very bottom of the section. So, since you don't wear a shield, would you say that it doesn't apply to encumbrance? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Oct 15 2007, 06:51 PM
Post
#78
|
|
|
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
why would you say you don't wear a shield? you strap it right onto your arm.
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 15 2007, 06:54 PM
Post
#79
|
|||||
|
The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
Are you asking in relation to armor stacking? In which case, paragraph one on Armor and Encumbrance p. 149. "Note that some armor items, like helmets and shields, provide a modifi er to the worn armor rating and so do not count as stacked armor." Or are you asking about carrying capacity type of encumbrance? |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Oct 15 2007, 06:58 PM
Post
#80
|
|||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
Going by the descriptions of the ballistic shield, I'd say its a bit more involved than strapping it on your arm. Here is an example of the ballistic shield as described in the book. I'd say its more carried than it is worn. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Oct 15 2007, 07:00 PM
Post
#81
|
|||||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
It looks like we're just arguing semantics. I'm saying that he's a prime runner in the field of dead languages, you're saying he's not a prime runner at all. In both cases though, we agree that he's not a danger to the PCs, nor should he be.
That's true. I don't recall ever saying that they were. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Oct 15 2007, 07:02 PM
Post
#82
|
|
|
ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Yup, that's the sticking point that I noticed. One of you is basically saying that the only thing that matters when judging Prime Runner status is combat capability. I disagree entirely, since you could easily stat up a PC that was absolutely useless in combat, but incredibly useful/powerful in other ways.
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 15 2007, 07:03 PM
Post
#83
|
|||||||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
I fully agree with you. He is a prime runner of dead languages/mechanics. In the world of shadowrun, he probably isn't a huge threat to combat monsters. He would be a threat to a history professor/shop owner though. |
||||||
|
|
|
||||||
|
Oct 15 2007, 07:10 PM
Post
#84
|
|||||
|
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
well, then, in your game, shields shouldn't apply to encumbrance. in my game, assuming i ever ran an SR4 game, they would, because i've played around with SCA folks enough to have actually worn a shield.
we're not arguing semantics, we're arguing definitions! (alternatively: you're just anti-semantic, like Hitler!) |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Oct 15 2007, 07:15 PM
Post
#85
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
I'm also an anti-Dentite.
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 15 2007, 07:16 PM
Post
#86
|
|||||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
And have you seen someone "wear" a tower shield? Last I checked, no one used them in SCA. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Oct 15 2007, 07:20 PM
Post
#87
|
|
|
ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Anecdotal, invalid. One of the local SCA guys here uses a tower shield. Doesn't prove anything.
Use of word "wear" acceptable. Some have straps, arm loops, what have you. Just finished Watchmen. Typing like Rorschach. |
|
|
|
|
Oct 15 2007, 07:24 PM
Post
#88
|
|||
|
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
what is it with you and ridiculous nitpicking? "oh, you may wear a regular shield, but you don't wear a tower shield--at least, as far as you can prove! therefore, i am the victor!" |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Oct 15 2007, 07:39 PM
Post
#89
|
|||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Sweet link. I'll have to keep that in mind the next time I picture anyone but a troll trying to use one of those things in combat. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Oct 15 2007, 07:42 PM
Post
#90
|
|
|
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
well, hold the phone. that's hardly the only sort of ballistic shield out there. my mental picture is closer to this, which is much lighter.
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 15 2007, 08:09 PM
Post
#91
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
That one doesn't seem to have a built in ladder like the one in the rulebook. I used to picture that kind of shield too, until this thread made me reread it and notice that it's also useful for climbing.
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 15 2007, 08:29 PM
Post
#92
|
|
|
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
hm, yeah, plus the fact that there's no listing for using a ballistic shield as a weapon. crazy. there's apparently no listing for... well, to be honest? i've played a lot of Crisis Zone, and that's mainly what i think of when i think of ballistic shields.
...maybe a bit less resistant to rockets and MBT cannonfire. |
|
|
|
|
Oct 15 2007, 08:50 PM
Post
#93
|
|
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
I see that as being more like the riot shield listed. Its smaller and lighter (thus easier for use as a weapon) and has less of a bonus.
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 15 2007, 10:56 PM
Post
#94
|
|||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
I think it's important that we mention Golgo 13 as much as possible. People really aren't exposed to Golgo 13 enough today. I'll be that a lot of people think of One Piece and Pokemon instead of hoary 70s delicacies like Golgo 13 when you say "anime" or "manga" in the US. If I were a millionare philanthropist I'd run national televised ads saying "Golgo 13: Your Anime Sucks". And I'd have HBO run all night Japanese pulp grindhouse specials or something. We probably need a physad power that lets you disable large metal machines with a single well placed round of 5.56x39, where the armor and power rating and what have you are totally irrelevant. Maybe you accept a +8 TN penalty or something, or you are required to spend a full combat turn just using uninterrupted consecutive Take Aim actions in order for the power to activate. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Oct 16 2007, 12:18 AM
Post
#95
|
|||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
or you could just use the longshot rules without modification =P |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Oct 16 2007, 02:28 AM
Post
#96
|
|||
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 |
My Comedian smiley face shirt without all the movie advertisement bs on it is one of my prized possessions. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 11th January 2026 - 07:37 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.