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> Vindicator Minigun
i101
post Oct 16 2007, 12:03 AM
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Does anyone have a balanced translation for the Vindicator Minigun? I still have my difficultys with translating SR3 > SR4 availability and prices.

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tisoz
post Oct 16 2007, 11:21 AM
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6P, -1AP, FA, 50©/belt, SI2, 30/14days, 2500

It looks close to the Ingram LMG, but had a high availability.
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i101
post Oct 16 2007, 07:52 PM
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Thank You :). Erm ... What means SI2?
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Moon-Hawk
post Oct 16 2007, 08:21 PM
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QUOTE (i101)
Thank You :). Erm ... What means SI2?

It means the Street Index is 2.
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i101
post Oct 16 2007, 09:06 PM
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QUOTE
SI2, 30/14days
Sounds somehow like SR3 ... What would the Availability in SR4 be then?
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tisoz
post Oct 17 2007, 12:19 AM
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Sorry.

It was harder to get than the Panther Assault Cannon, which is 20F in SR4, so maybe 24F.
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Juca Bala
post Oct 17 2007, 01:03 PM
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And what about its 15 bullets per full auto action? I, when the sammy finally get one, ruled that the vindicator always shot on full auto, 15 bullets and it mixed the rules on narrow and wide burst:

Wide burst: -9 to all dodge tests, +5 to damage
Narrow burst: +9 to damage, -5 to all dodge tests.

And it seemed to work just fine, on course, until finding the right tripod, gas vent and shock pads, the sammy was having a very hard time just in hit the broad side of a barn...
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DWC
post Oct 17 2007, 01:11 PM
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Don't forget the best part, namely the full Combat Turn required to get the barrels up to speed before you start firing.
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Juca Bala
post Oct 17 2007, 01:24 PM
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Yes, DWC, but that part was so much crappy that, at least on my group, we scraped it and, instead, ruled that on the first combat turn the "beast" "only" fired 10 bullets...
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tisoz
post Oct 17 2007, 03:50 PM
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QUOTE (Juca Bala)
And it seemed to work just fine, on course, until finding the right tripod, gas vent and shock pads, the sammy was having a very hard time just in hit the broad side of a barn...

That gives the flavor of previous editions, however, gas vents on rapidly spinning barrels should not help RC.
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Juca Bala
post Oct 17 2007, 04:24 PM
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Yes, I too think that gas vents on rotating barrels should not give any RC but the gun is already uncontrollable as it is... And it could be worse, the sammy, later on a stealth mission, was thinking about using sound suppressors on it... one per barrel... :rotate:
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Fortune
post Oct 17 2007, 04:26 PM
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According to the (previous) canon rules, miniguns could not have any sort of barrel attachment (such as Gas Vents or Suppressors).
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Shrapnel
post Oct 18 2007, 12:14 AM
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QUOTE (Juca Bala)
Yes, I too think that gas vents on rotating barrels should not give any RC but the gun is already uncontrollable as it is... And it could be worse, the sammy, later on a stealth mission, was thinking about using sound suppressors on it... one per barrel... :rotate:

I'd be really worried about baffle strikes if you tried to use sound suppressors on a minigun. Your sound suppressors would probably self-destruct rather quickly... :dead:
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Juca Bala
post Oct 18 2007, 10:23 AM
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Well, the Rules where pretty explict in saying that the barrels rotating have a very distinct NOISE. I just said to the sammy: Try suppress THAT noise :cyber: So he ended up using a Ingram Smartgun for the run... But the suppressed vindicator of doom is still in his armory :rotate:
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kzt
post Oct 18 2007, 04:03 PM
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QUOTE (Shrapnel)
I'd be really worried about baffle strikes if you tried to use sound suppressors on a minigun. Your sound suppressors would probably self-destruct rather quickly... :dead:

You can. I've seen pictures of them installed. No idea how well they work.
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Starmage21
post Oct 18 2007, 10:30 PM
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QUOTE (Juca Bala)
And what about its 15 bullets per full auto action? I, when the sammy finally get one, ruled that the vindicator always shot on full auto, 15 bullets and it mixed the rules on narrow and wide burst:

Wide burst: -9 to all dodge tests, +5 to damage
Narrow burst: +9 to damage, -5 to all dodge tests.

And it seemed to work just fine, on course, until finding the right tripod, gas vent and shock pads, the sammy was having a very hard time just in hit the broad side of a barn...

Thats actually counter-intuitive, considering the original Gattling guns were so accurate an artifical sway had to be introduced just so that they would be more effective.

Modern miniguns are typically mounted on something hard, but even so don't generate that much recoil(rotating barrels allows for both cooling and the release of recoil gasses), they also no longer have an articial sway. Still, the Vindicator is unlikely to be firing 30mm rounds like you'd see mounted on a helicopter, but rather pistol or assault rifle(LMG?) rounds which would produce much less recoil firing from a much heavier platform.

Consider videos like this (caution vulgar language) with a minigun being fired from a moving vehicle and still placing enough lead on target to rip it to shreds. Imagine what that would happen. Well, it would kind of look like this
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Juca Bala
post Oct 19 2007, 10:55 AM
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Yes, Starmage, I know that its not on par with reallity. But its a little on par with the old rules, where the minigun fired 15 bullets per action and all the uncompensed recoil was doubled...
If it have to be like reallity then it needed to shoot about 100-166 bullets per second... And it will NOT be pretty to see the results...
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KarmaInferno
post Oct 19 2007, 05:06 PM
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Hmm...

If the Vindicator makes a distinctive predictable sound...

Shouldn't it be possible to use active noise cancellation to at least muffle that sound?


-karma
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Fortune
post Oct 19 2007, 08:29 PM
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QUOTE (Juca Bala)
If it have to be like reallity then it needed to shoot about 100-166 bullets per second... And it will NOT be pretty to see the results...

You could say the same kind of thing about all of the guns in the game though. ROF has always been lower than real life. Think of it as some kind of ingrained ammo conservation technique. ;)
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Kyoto Kid
post Oct 20 2007, 12:28 AM
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QUOTE (KarmaInferno)
Hmm...

If the Vindicator makes a distinctive predictable sound...

Shouldn't it be possible to use active noise cancellation to at least muffle that sound?


-karma

...silence spell on the gun & shooter?
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KarmaInferno
post Oct 24 2007, 10:18 PM
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I was thinking of an omnidirectional speaker mounted to the minigun hooked to a sound generator capable of putting out the exact opposite audio waveform that a minigun produces.

In theory this should make the minigun almost silent.

Heck, forget the minigun, how about a set of speakers and microphones that can negate the sound of you walking around, for those stealth types?


-karma
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Ryu
post Oct 25 2007, 10:06 AM
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A noiseless vindicator. Who would ever use that? A vindicator NEEDS sound. Killing targets dead can be done by other weapons.

Besides, the trail of projectiles and the sound created at the target are sure giveaways.

--

For special rules I´d suggest:

- first round of shooting happens at initiative -5 if the barrels are not already rotating, so cycle-up-time gives fast opponents the chance to react

- suppression fire gets a +3 DP modifier and takes 30 bullets
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Stahlseele
post Oct 25 2007, 10:18 AM
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the vindicator minigun is my main argument for defaulting to heavy weapons when negotiating . . you try to say no when there's this nice electrical whirring sound behind you . .
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Ryu
post Oct 26 2007, 04:40 PM
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Thats intimidation. But yes, definitly.
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Narse
post Oct 27 2007, 02:18 AM
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I believe that per SR4 rules that gives you a +5 bonus to your check : +3 for being extremely physically intimidating in some way, and +2 for wielding obvious weapons.
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