 All this talk of Hackers buying their ability,, how bad is it really? |
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 Oct 16 2007, 08:05 PM
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#1
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence  Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715  |
Okay, here's the challenge: Bill Gates the 4th has straight 1s for attributes and no useful skills. Given an arbitrary amount of money and 0 karma, make the most bad-ass hacker possible.
(I am aware that this is vaguely similar to my old challenge of making a viable character without putting any points into attributes, but this is sufficiently different, I think. Besides, Augmentation wasn't out then.) Munchkinawesomeness will be scored based on how effective of a hacker he is, as well as how little money can be spent on doing it. That is to say, a dice pool of 15 and spending under 50k could potentially be as impressive as a dice pool of 30 spending 5 million, so it's only worthwhile getting deltaware if you're out of essence. Since everyone has roughly equal access to Agents, let's just leave them out of the equation. Let's see just how bad this can get. :D edit: Maybe I should have called this the Script Kiddie of Doom Challenge. |
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Oct 16 2007, 08:18 PM
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#2
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...I take it this is using the Hacking RAW (Skill + Programme = DP w/no caps to hits)?
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Oct 16 2007, 08:24 PM
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#3
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
To be fair we'd have to, but if possible it's probably best to boost Logic through the roof along with whatever else you're doing, since so many people (myself included) use Logic based house rules anyway. |
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Oct 16 2007, 08:24 PM
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#4
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
Or how about "My retarded script kiddie pwns yur technomancer"? :D |
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Oct 16 2007, 08:28 PM
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#5
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...does make a diff as to where you use your resources. If Logic doesn't enter the equation (as in the RAW), then there's really no point to boosting the attribute. |
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Oct 16 2007, 08:29 PM
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#6
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
What defines "hacker"? Hacking dicepool?
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Oct 16 2007, 08:31 PM
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#7
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Already invalid. The number one cause of Script Kiddy-ism is the fact that a Rating 4 Agent and a Transys Avalon to run it on in style costs a starting character just 15 grand. And that can be repeated for credit. Indeed, the number one problem of the hacking rules is that you can get a complete extra Hacker which could nut-punch a Red Samurai Lieutenant for 3 BP. And two for 6 BP. And eight of them for 24 BP. And so on. So the fact that you can grab yourself a set of skill wires, and a Response 6 Commlink running every program at 6, and inject yourself with nanites that provide a +3 bonus on top of that and walz into all computer situations with a dicepool of 13 by your lonesome using the simplest of equipment that any aspiring Hacker is going to want to have anyway - that doesn't even matter. Hell, it's equally unimportant that there is in fact no limit at all to response or program ratings - such items are simply very costly and unavailable on the street. So while our man with arbitrary wealth really can have a custom commlink with an unlimited dicepool - it seriously doesn't eve matter because you can already have a functionally unlimited dicepool without doing anything funky at all jusst by filling your backpack full of commlinks running Agents which are available to starting characters. -Frank |
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Oct 16 2007, 08:34 PM
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#8
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
True. But since it's just one attribute it shouldn't be too difficult to say that some gear is conditional. Or you know what, do it whichever way you please. Or both. I'd just like to see some extreme cases to see how bad this "problem" really is. @Tarantula: Pretty much. I mean, it's not the be all and end all, but it's darn close. I wouldn't put effort into trying to maximize his memory tests or anything, but if one build can resist Black IC better than another that's worth something. |
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Oct 16 2007, 08:42 PM
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#9
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Agreed. I am aware of the agent problem. But it's a different problem. Don't ruin my fun. :P
But see the rating 6 Agent only has a 12DP, so the hacker with his 13DP is already better. You can get a better "Agent" by putting skillwires and nanites in a personafixed bum, because Agents can't get nanites.
Good point. Let's assume the limit is 6, just for simplicity.
Yes but there are people who claim that the Agent problem doesn't really exist. Personally, I believe that there is an Agent problem, but that's a different thread. Just for now, I'm willing to make a concession to those people and ignore the agent problem, and highlight the personafixed bum/rich kid/retarded monkey hacker problem.
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Oct 17 2007, 01:27 AM
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#10
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,526 Joined: 9-April 06 From: McGuire AFB, NJ Member No.: 8,445 |
Skillwires 4 + all hacking type skillwire programs at 4
All programs at R6 in a custom 6/6/6/X rig HotSim 4(skillwires) + 6Program + 2 HotSIM = 12 dice, not a bad dicepool for an idiot. |
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Oct 17 2007, 02:54 AM
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#11
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
don't forget to throw in a few of the mods that boost hacking ability. |
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Oct 17 2007, 03:04 AM
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#12
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I think the point is that any dufus could do a decent enough job without any of those mods. |
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Oct 17 2007, 04:09 AM
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#13
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...OK, since there is no rules that I can find concerning compatibility of certain implants, treatments and skillwires, here is the best I could come up with
Unmodified Attributes: all at 1 Augmented Attributes: Logic 1 (5) Intuition 1 (2) Willpower 2 (3) Skills: none of measurable worth Qualities Natural Hardening Quality +1 to Black IC/Dumpshock defence Codeslinger Quality (Access) +2 to access tests. Cyber Implanted Commlink "HAL 6000" (6/6/6/6) commlink w/ Hot Sim +2DP Skilwires 4 & Activesofts 4 +4 DP Encephalon 2 +2DP Simsense Booster: +1 IP to Matrix Initiaitve Math SPU: +2 to EW tests. Datajack (doesn't help with the pools but still useful) Bio: Cerebral booster: 3 (logic 3 for when it is needed) Sleep Regulator (as with datajack) Gentech: Genetic Optimisation: Intuition +1 to VR Initiative Genetic Optimisation: Willpower +1 vs. Black IC/Dumpshock Genetic Optimisation: Logic +1 Darendrenaline Transgenic +1 to all WP tests PuShEd TransGenetic +1 DP Gear Programmes Rating 6 +6DP Totals Hacking Pool 15 (17 for access tests) Matrix initiative (hot VR) 9 IP 4 Matrix Defence: 12 Damage Resistance: 12 Dumpshock/Black IC Resistance: 11 Cybercombat: Attack Pool: 9 Black Hammer Pool: 9 Blackout Pool: 9 Essence: 2.25 :nuyen: spent: 446,800 (yeah costly but hey this is Bill the Gates' Great Grandbrat) |
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Oct 17 2007, 09:17 AM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 573 Joined: 17-September 07 Member No.: 13,319 |
Looks like the Kid pwns so far.
Knowlege Skill: Matrix Protocols is nice flavor without directly adding to dice pools. Also seems to me that Skillwires is a substantial choice at chargen. Hmm, idea for new thread. |
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Oct 17 2007, 02:43 PM
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#15
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Wow, nice work KK. So if someone were using a Logic+Skill based house-rule, that would be a Hacking pool of, what, 14?
Impressive. Impressive even without the positive qualities, which might not be present in any given rich kid or hobo. Oh, and IIRC you're not missing any rules in Emergence. There was one tiny part that wasn't even a rule, it was a guideline just in case you can't wait for the rules to come out in another book, and it had nothing to do with this. |
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Oct 17 2007, 02:55 PM
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#16
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...thanks. Sometime I should post Violet's (#35) build. Her Pool is about the same but she is also a pretty slick little B & E specialist as well, can shoot good enough to hold her own in a fight, has useful contacts, and is in a campaign where extreme "munching" is discouraged. :grinbig:
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