 Channeling after dark, sunrise/sunset vs channeling time |
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 Oct 24 2007, 10:32 PM
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#1
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Free Spirit  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,931 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920  |
Just had this come up. What happens if a shaman channels a spirit and the successes would extend the channeling time past sunset/sunrise? For example, shaman Channels a spirit 5 minutes before sunset getting 3 successes. Does the channeling end in 30 minutes or when the spirit leaves in 5 minutes at sunset?
Normal Channeling rules state multiply the successes by 10 minutes, at the end of that time the spirit departs, even if it still owed services. Does this supercede the standard spirit leaving at sunrise sunset? |
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Oct 24 2007, 10:48 PM
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#2
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
In my opinion (no quotes to back it up), the Sunrise/Sunset limits would override all other options.
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Oct 24 2007, 10:58 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 993 Joined: 5-December 05 From: Crying in the wilderness Member No.: 8,047 |
I would advise the oppersite more in line with possession.
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Oct 24 2007, 11:03 PM
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#4
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Why? What makes Possession traditions special that they (only) can ignore one of the basic tenets of SR Conjuration? |
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Oct 24 2007, 11:05 PM
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#5
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,931 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
I am almost positive this was never addressed in SR3. I was hoping to get an idea of what others thought or if someone could point to a similar situation (exception) that could help make a decision.
Like if a magician has a time geas and is sustaining a spell past the time, what happens, if anything? Sort of a similar predicament. |
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Oct 24 2007, 11:17 PM
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#6
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,931 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
Another basic of nature spirits is not being able to cross domain lines, yet the invoking metamagic lets spirits exceed this space constraint. |
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Oct 24 2007, 11:36 PM
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#7
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
well, yes, but the text for invoking specifically states which limits the metamagic allows you to overcome. as far as i'm aware, nothing in the text for possession says anything about being able to ignore the sunrise/sunset limitation. if it's two hours before sunset, and you tell your task spirit to fix your wrecked car, it doesn't stay past sunset just because the task will take eight hours to complete. i don't see why possession should work any differently.
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Oct 25 2007, 08:58 AM
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#8
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,931 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
I re-read the Channeling section and the next to last paragragh addresses when the channeling ends so that the Drain Test can be made.
It still does not address the overall sunrise/sunset rule. Channeling does pull the spirit into the channeler's body. Is this enough to overcome the pull of the terminator (used as the astronomical term denoting the change from light to dark.)? This seems a little like locking in the spirit during cybermancy, and according to fiction, the cybermantic ritual could trap even free spirits entering the vessel. If cybermancy is capable of this, it seems likely it is capable of capturing a sunrise/sunset duration spirit, thereby breaking the basic rule. I just realized the sunrise/sunset characters may just have to re-summon and re-channel their spirits. The mage character is the one I started thinking about how expensive it would get re-summoning all the time, but, my mistake, they do not have to worry about the time constraint. |
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Oct 25 2007, 09:33 AM
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#9
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Why would it address the Sunrise/Sunset rule unless something in that section alters or affects the rule in a different manner than the norm? Since no mention is made of any exceptions to the general Sunrise/Sunset rule in the section on Channeling, it seems clear to me that the rule affects Channeling as normal. |
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Oct 25 2007, 10:23 AM
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#10
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
I´m with Fortune. Spirits end any task and return to their home plane when the "sun visibility state" changes. Any change to that should be explicit.
And doesn´t this need an [SR3]-tag? Just noticed the "mages are unconcerned" bit on 2nd notice (writing this). |
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Oct 25 2007, 10:58 AM
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#11
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,951 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
This not being the SR4 forum, why on earth would it need an [SR3] tag?
~J |
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Oct 25 2007, 04:00 PM
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#12
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,931 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
No mention of an exception? One could argue the rule that was quoted prior to my statement you quoted defines how long the channeling lasts, regardless of terminator. Does it make your opinion stronger by ignoring the only actual rule we are given? As far as marking it only SR3, I would welcome SR4 input if it helped clarify the matter. I am not overly familiar with all the new rules and some of the implications arising from them. |
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Oct 25 2007, 05:24 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 993 Joined: 5-December 05 From: Crying in the wilderness Member No.: 8,047 |
Personal preference time.
As stated I would go with the path that the large number of karma to get the metamagic and a whacky load of drain at the end of the exercise, means the magical event that occurs in normal mystical circumstances is circumvented by the mystic change performed by the metamagic, hence creating a different set of mystic circumstances allowing the use of channeling to its normal time limit. (phew) Of course the counter argument is equally valid in a different light. So. Personal preference time. |
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Oct 25 2007, 09:44 PM
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#14
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Pretty much all abilities, powers, metamagics and the like have a duration. That does not mean that those individual durations override something like the Sunrise/Sunset limitation. You are arguing quite hard for this. If you want to do it for your game, you should feel free, as you know. I just can't see how you are rationalizing this being some kind of 'official' loophole though, as you are really having to stretch to find ways to ignore the basic limitations on non-Bound Spirits. |
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Oct 25 2007, 09:46 PM
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#15
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
And I think that if you want your Spirit to hang around and ignore the Sunrise/Sunset limitation, you need to use Binding, just like everyone else. |
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Oct 25 2007, 10:59 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 993 Joined: 5-December 05 From: Crying in the wilderness Member No.: 8,047 |
SR3
Still personal preference time. |
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Oct 25 2007, 11:48 PM
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#17
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Then play a Hermetic! :P :D
As evidenced by the 'I think' part of my post{s}. ;) :) |
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Oct 27 2007, 02:06 PM
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#18
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
Well, because this is not the SR3 forum either. Any thread regarding that system should be clearly marked. Cuts down confusion, especially for those who only know SR4. |
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Oct 29 2007, 05:38 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 830 Joined: 3-April 04 From: Columbus, Ohio Member No.: 6,215 |
No clue. But when I get addicted to cocaine and learn how to play guitar, "the Pull of the Terminator" is going to be the name of my first rock opera, and it's going to be about dragons and Cthulhu. |
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Oct 29 2007, 05:54 PM
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#20
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,951 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I'm not sure why you think that, given that it's fairly clearly labelled the Shadowrun forum. ~J |
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Oct 29 2007, 05:54 PM
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#21
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
it also doesn't mention that wound modifiers apply to the channeling test. therefore, they must not? |
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Nov 1 2007, 10:13 AM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 573 Joined: 17-September 07 Member No.: 13,319 |
What if you summon an air spirit, have it use Movement on your aircraft, and then keep flying west so that you stay ahead of the terminator? One service... for 100+ hours? If you have the spirit aid a flying drone with electric engine powered by solar panels on wings, then one service lasting for the rest of the Sixth World (or mechanical failure)?
That would be kinda unfair to the spirit, eh? Mercifully, you can't also task a machine sprite to keep the drone Stabilized forever, because those run for only 8 hours, because techie sleep/wake cycles have little to do with daylight. Mi-maxing mages do all their Summoning just after local sunset/sunrise. Does the spirit world dread "rush hour" when the sun rises over Seattle? What if all the spirits on the part of the Astral that's parallel to Seattle, go elsewhere at dawn to avoid getting summoned? |
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Nov 1 2007, 11:17 AM
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#23
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,951 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
No more than it is unfair to the plane.
Do cars and freeways dread "rush hour"? ~J |
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Nov 1 2007, 07:19 PM
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#24
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,245 Joined: 27-April 07 From: Running the streets of Southeast Virginia Member No.: 11,548 |
Why would they? It's always sunrise and sunset somewhere in the world. |
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Nov 2 2007, 12:38 AM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 573 Joined: 17-September 07 Member No.: 13,319 |
And it's also *not* sunrise or sunset in the rest of the world, so if a spirit moves a bit, its odds of getting summoned could drop dramatically, if summoning has anything to do with the location of summoner and spirit.
Yes, the kami of the freeway does indeed dislike rush hour. Or exults in it. One or the other. |
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